Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Is this is a business where the owner needs to turn a profit to keep it going? If so, he'll generally do what he needs to do to make that happen.

Note that groups devoted to providing track time are somewhat different than groups devoted to improving driving skills. Regardless of how many track days an advanced student has run, one group I drive with insists upon putting an instructor in the car with them during the first session of each day. As you might imagine, the number of spins, offs, and other gross errors are pretty rare at that kind of event.

The idea of friends getting ride-arounds at a DE from non-instructors is a new one to me. If the car had back seats, would you foresee putting friends in them as well, or would you limit it to a single friend?

Actually, the organization in question is the only one that does *not* allow passengers in SoCal.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Seven days seems a little short on experience to be an instructor.

I don't disagree, although I've seen a few rare exceptions.

Mostly they're just making sure you can correct glaring errors in driving technique and can demonstrate the line during a "lead follow".

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

What is pad smear?
I am weirded out by the fact it is only a narrow band that doesn't appear on the inner surface. It only appears on the surface closest to the outside of the car.
On track I do the pedal dance (leading with the left foot) but for street use I have the right hand button activated.

That would be your pad severely overheating and leaving a streak of melted pad on the rotor.

What kind of pads and tires are you running?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by MINOCIN

He immediately asks me how many times I have driven with them. I say 8, to which he replies that 8 just so happens to be the exact number of times that his insurance requires of him before he can appoint that driver to be an instructor. So, problem solved. He'll make me an instructor and I can invite my friends and we'll all be happy.

Really?!?

Only 8 HPDE events and now I'm ready to be an instructor? You can't be serious?

He then asked if I was a good driver, perhaps already expecting me to say yes but I say no, I suck (it's true). This surprised him a bit, but only a little because he continued to say that as far as his insurance is concerned it doesn't matter. I just needed those 8 track days to be good.

What do you guys think? Was this all just a load of bull to try and get me to prepay for more track days (and bring my friends along) or is 8 tracks days really all it takes to become an instructor?

IMO, they shouldn't be basing it on number of track days. I know people with three times as much track time as me under their belt that can't follow a consistent line lap after lap.

What's more important in an instructor is can they demonstrate the proper line and talk their way around a course so the student can learn in multiple ways, and can they effectively teach and correct the student.

I've also been coaching ski racing for ~15 years, and some of the best coaches I know aren't that fast at all, but are GREAT coaches.

[MINOCIN]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Actually, the organization in question is the only one that does *not* allow passengers in SoCal.

This was the point I was trying to make to the event organizer. I like their package deal, it's a decent deal and I can see how they would try to use instructors as a way to try and make up some money, but for me it's actually one of the main reason why I wont use them again for now. Perhaps later when my novice friends start getting better and running in the same run group as me I'll go back.

I don't plan on being an instructor. I actually told him that I suck at driving. I was just shocked to hear that he only required 8 tracks days. I couldn't believe it.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by MINOCIN

This was the point I was trying to make to the event organizer. I like their package deal, it's a decent deal and I can see how they would try to use instructors as a way to try and make up some money, but for me it's actually one of the main reason why I wont use them again for now. Perhaps later when my novice friends start getting better and running in the same run group as me I'll go back.

I don't plan on being an instructor. I actually told him that I suck at driving. I was just shocked to hear that he only required 8 tracks days. I couldn't believe it.

Being aware of your own skills and limitations is a very good thing and will serve you well as you get faster. It is hard to improve things when you don't know what is lacking!

[Mr.Ferret]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I am not a lawyer, blah blah blah. Your car your warranty, so on and so forth.

That all said:
I've been "offroading" at 75 Mph over hard pan dirt in my BRZ and it was fine (T-Hill turn 15). It was also fine after spinning out at 100 Mph (Buttonwillow exiting the esses), most of which was over dirt and it was fine. I've even run over curbing at 70Mph and bent a rim without any sign of damage to the car itself (actually the bent rim was more because the curb hit the rim directly). When I do a track day I repeatedly subject my car to 1.2 lateral G's on a bunch of corners which, thanks to weight transfer, is basically like hanging the car by two of its wheels hundreds of times a day. I wouldn't recommend doing any of that, but I don't know of any damage that occurred to my car when I did them.

These cars aren't rock crawlers, but they are modern vehicles built to last for hundreds of thousands of miles (well, we all hope they are). If driving over some compacted sand would damage the car in any meaningful way then you wouldn't have much of a car left after going between LA and the bay area on I5 in the right hand lane (you might also have a liquified spine at that point but that is another issue).

To re-iterate though, you always need to weigh the risk and rewards of any motor sport and and the conditions that that event happens in.

Well both myself and the car survived! I rocked up early morning, saw a 260z a couple of old ae86s and an s13 (all cars that i did not expect to be anywhere near me in my area of Aus) I got to do 4 laps on the track, my instruct Keith was excellent and had plenty of experience, was very impressed with how i drove and how the car behaved. Still had the traction control on the for the first lap that made it difficult but holding slides just rocked, there was one corner, the horseshoe as its called that was over 180 degrees around, quite a handful but damn fun!.

He took me for a sneaky ride in his WRX afterwoulds (he was competing that afternoon) and happily for me went wide and over / understeered at all the places i did which was encouraging with someone with as much experience as him, he said the track was awfully slippery and the 4wd only gave him the advantage on corner exit.

I stuck around and watched the runs of the other cars and everyone want me to sign up for my full CAMS (confederation of Australian Motor Sport) liscense and enter that afternoon, i didnt as its a lot to think about but im keen to check out there other events, they do gymkhana and hill climbs and im going to pop along to the next club meeting to ask some more questions.

All in all a great day out!

[THEmailman]

In regards to the attached picture, what exactly is going on with my rotors? My guess would be heat stress from the track but is it something to worry about or just natural aging of abused parts and monitor it? Does it mean it's getting close to the time to replace the rotors?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

In regards to the attached picture, what exactly is going on with my rotors? My guess would be heat stress from the track but is it something to worry about or just natural aging of abused parts and monitor it? Does it mean it's getting close to the time to replace the rotors?

The small cracks are heat checking; normal. The whiteish non-reflective stripe looks like a pad just about to start smearing (literally smearing, because it's overheated and melting).

The rotor is fine to use, but as the cracks get larger, get ready to replace them. If a crack reaches the edge of the rotor, it's no good, and needs to be changed ASAP. You'll feel a pulsing your brake pedal if you drive on a cracked rotor.

[THEmailman]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The small cracks are heat checking; normal. The whiteish non-reflective stripe looks like a pad just about to start smearing (literally smearing, because it's overheated and melting).

The rotor is fine to use, but as the cracks get larger, get ready to replace them. If a crack reaches the edge of the rotor, it's no good, and needs to be changed ASAP. You'll feel a pulsing your brake pedal if you drive on a cracked rotor.

Got it. I guess its a good thing I ordered those 999s then; can't wait to try them out. Would it also be appropriate to ssy that I should look at getting some ducts to cool the brakes too?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Are there any quality bolt-in roll bars available that have an integral harness bar?


Like these for Miata's? (I come from the BMW/Miata world).


http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept...%20%202%20DIAG

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

Got it. I guess its a good thing I ordered those 999s then; can't wait to try them out. Would it also be appropriate to ssy that I should look at getting some ducts to cool the brakes too?

Ducting will help prevent fade, but it comes at the cost of speeding up the process of cracking rotors, since you'll be making the thermal cycles larger.

It's definitely something to keep in mind.

[THEmailman]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ducting will help prevent fade, but it comes at the cost of speeding up the process of cracking rotors, since you'll be making the thermal cycles larger.

It's definitely something to keep in mind.

Ok I never thought of that but makes sense.....related then, when it comes time to replace the rotors, is it worth it to just go with a blank replacement rotor or upgrade to something a little more geared toward track duty (still keeping stock brake system)?

[dradernh]

Note that you can block off brake ducts when running on tracks where they're not needed.