FR-S vs 2012 Ford Focus ST

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The Mustang is a metric by which all cheap performance cars are measured. Unfortunately all of the USDM Foci are gimped for whatever reason.

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[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

?

There you go.

[Turbowned]

We can beat this topic to death, but:

Formula 1: RWD
Le Mans: RWD
ALMS: RWD
NASCAR: RWD
Indy Car: RWD
Grand Am Series: RWD
Japan Super GT: RWD
Australian V8 Supercars: RWD
Speed World Challenge: first class RWD, second class FWD
BTCC: mix of RWD and FWD
WRC and every major rally: AWD

Yes, there are quick and competitive front-drivers out there. That said, they are still not the IDEAL platform for performance driving. If you choose one, that's your prerogative, but you're on a forum for a rear-wheel-drive, purist sports coupe. You're silly if you didn't see this opposition coming.

[Sport-Tech]

+ FIA GT1 series: RWD

[SpeedR]

ya I probably am just some internet liar and I thought up this conversation a month ago and told all the same lies to the 60 something people from the first 86 trip most of whom are on this board in preparation for talking to you.

Maybe you should tell Ferrari, Mclaren, and Lamborghini to go for FWD drivetrains since it performs so amazingly. Oddly enough they tend to choose inferior RWD and AWD platforms.

OK I am going to go over this one last time.
You only have a few square inches where the rubber meets the road all the handling prowess and acceleration ability are channeled through this small pad. Each tire has a maximum amount of grip or 100% of its theoretical grip at any given time. In a FWD car the 100% of grip must be split if it uses 75% of its total grip to change the momentum of the car laterally it only has 25% left to used for acceleration before it starts to slid and the car will push, also most of the time the rear tires potential grip is wasted doing almost nothing. In a RWD car you have
Separated the jobs of steering and the accelerating and therefore your potential grip is 100% for each job at any given time.

Performance driving is all about grip management and 4 contact pads doing the work is better than 2.


There are plenty of fast FWD race cars and the builder’s drivers and teams deserve a lot of credit.

Racing series with both FWD and RWD cars in the same class give advantages in the rules to FWD to overcome the disadvantage of having FWD.(usually there allowed to be lighter weight). This basically proves my point.
Touring car racing is notorious for its rules based on what drivetrain you’re running just ask Audi what happened to them.

All internet sniping aside this is basic performance driving knowledge this is not me picking on FWD. Driving is just like anything else it’s not just practice its deliberate knowledge based practice so if you want to be a better driver go read a book and take a few driving class.

If your still so pissoff you still don’t get this please just explain how 2 contact pads doing all the work is the equivalent of 4 contact pads of the same size doing the work because that all this conversation is about.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by SpeedR

ya I probably am just some internet liar and I thought up this conversation a month ago and told all the same lies to the 60 something people from the first 86 trip most of whom are on this board in preparation for talking to you.

Maybe you should tell Ferrari, Mclaren, and Lamborghini to go for FWD drivetrains since it performs so amazingly. Oddly enough they tend to choose inferior RWD and AWD platforms.

OK I am going to go over this one last time.
You only have a few square inches where the rubber meets the road all the handling prowess and acceleration ability are channeled through this small pad. Each tire has a maximum amount of grip or 100% of its theoretical grip at any given time. In a FWD car the 100% of grip must be split if it uses 75% of its total grip to change the momentum of the car laterally it only has 25% left to used for acceleration before it starts to slid and the car will push, also most of the time the rear tires potential grip is wasted doing almost nothing. In a RWD car you have
Separated the jobs of steering and the accelerating and therefore your potential grip is 100% for each job at any given time.

Performance driving is all about grip management and 4 contact pads doing the work is better than 2.


There are plenty of fast FWD race cars and the builder’s drivers and teams deserve a lot of credit.

Racing series with both FWD and RWD cars in the same class give advantages in the rules to FWD to overcome the disadvantage of having FWD.(usually there allowed to be lighter weight). This basically proves my point.
Touring car racing is notorious for its rules based on what drivetrain you’re running just ask Audi what happened to them.

All internet sniping aside this is basic performance driving knowledge this is not me picking on FWD. Driving is just like anything else it’s not just practice its deliberate knowledge based practice so if you want to be a better driver go read a book and take a few driving class.

If your still so pissoff you still don’t get this please just explain how 2 contact pads doing all the work is the equivalent of 4 contact pads of the same size doing the work because that all this conversation is about.

Take a reading comprehension class and stop copy/pasting your information.

Realistically until you start getting into the upper horsepower ranges (something like 400+) any layout can do just as well as the other.

Or did I not say that however many posts ago? Seriously, let me know if you don't read beyond a 3rd grade level so I can stop wasting my time. What ferrari, Mclaren or Lambo do you know of that fits into that category? Now don't you feel like your inner idiot.

Now if you're still too thick headed to understand that you initially said "FWD SUCKS" and my responses were "uh, no. No it actually doesn't". Now if you can show me where in my posts I claimed that RWD and FWD were equal in terms of overall performance then I'll gladly delete my account and you'll never see me on here again. You can't because I never did. I said you can do just as well with FWD and also went on to say that the potential is higher and performance inhibitors are lessened with RWD (HENCE THE REASON IT'S USED IN DAMN NEAR EVERY FORM OF PROFESSIONAL RACING. HERP DERP).

Now if you'll excuse me I've better uses of my time than argueing with reading comprehension challenged internet trolls. And yes, that was a direct insult.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

We can beat this topic to death, but:

Yes, there are quick and competitive front-drivers out there. That said, they are still not the IDEAL platform for performance driving. If you choose one, that's your prerogative, but you're on a forum for a rear-wheel-drive, purist sports coupe. You're silly if you didn't see this opposition coming.

Indeed and you're one of the ones doing so :-p And me as well... doh! :-)

It is the silly silly OTT comments about how super awesome RWD is and how FWD is for our mums and is a pile o' shite, that will get replies from those of us who don't buy that nonsense.

The level of hubris coming from prospective BRZ/FRS owners really is tiresome. I think there are a good number of us (myself included) who are well chuffed about this car and all it represents, but that isn't mutually exclusive from appreciating other set ups.

There are also a lot of people here who complain about lacking dual climate, super sound systems, etc... and others who want a big wing, side skirts, and 20" wheels. That camp cannot really be that into pure sports coupes ;-)

[SpeedR]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I said you can do just as well with FWD and also went on to say that the potential is higher and performance inhibitors are lessened with RWD (HENCE THE REASON IT'S USED IN DAMN NEAR EVERY FORM OF PROFESSIONAL RACING. HERP DERP).

It's cool that you finely get what I have been I said all along.

FWD is the least desirable setup for performance driving IE FWD sucks for performance driving.

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

Now if you'll excuse me I've better uses of my time than argueing with reading comprehension challenged internet trolls. And yes, that was a direct insult.

Your excused thanks for playing.

[fatoni]

Macphersons are garbage compared to double wishbone so why are you on this forum? These cars are obviously not intended for sporty use

[Allch Chcar]

I'm glad we could all have this discussion. It's always fun to see how passionate you guys get about a particular topic.

Originally Posted by fatoni

Macphersons are garbage compared to double wishbone so why are you on this forum? These cars are obviously not intended for sporty use

Uh, Fatoni? They weren't discussing suspension geometry.

[DarkSunrise]

I think he's making the point that the BRZ doesn't have an ideal platform for performance either. Also you can work around the limits of FWD just as you can work around the limits of macpherson struts.

Or something like that

[SpeedR]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Macphersons are garbage compared to double wishbone so why are you on this forum? These cars are obviously not intended for sporty use

I would not say its garbage there is defiantly worse suspension setups.
Every car makes compromises of one kind or another. I like the balance of compromises that the FR-S has made.

What are you getting pissy about I’m sorry you got your little ego hurt because you drive a FWD and I said something bad about it. I gave you some knowledge you apparently did not know or have before get over it stop being a baby.

Two of my current cars are FWD there nothing wrong with it other than it’s not as good for performance driving.

Getting pissy with someone who tells you a truth you don’t want to hear only guarantees people won’t want to tell you the truth.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by SpeedR

It's cool that you finely get what I have been I said all along.

FWD is the least desirable setup for performance driving IE FWD sucks for performance driving.

Apologies for being a pedant, but if 'FWD sucks for performance driving' no race series would use it. Some do. Except for off-tarmac rallying, I think it would be more accurate to say AWD sucks for performance driving.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think he's making the point that the BRZ doesn't have an ideal platform for performance either. Also you can work around the limits of FWD just as you can work around the limits of macpherson struts.

Or something like that

Heeey, that was a pretty good translation.