FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[D K]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Well all good information to work with. The Magnum is super heavy though!

A "dog" box is not the same as a "sequential. " Something like a PPG dog box or even a syncro (dog is just the engagement type) set don't really require any extra maintenance. For easier daily driving with dog engagement you just double clutch your upshifts and its not a "crash" box then.

A sequential can require more maintenance but most likely that's a scheduled "race" maintenance. I'm sure using your clutch when not racing would lengthen service intervals immensely.

Ive driven a few hewlands and quaifes in my time...

It makes no sense whatsoever to get a sequential synchro box.

You wont be able to shift fast enough to capitalize on the advantage that seq brings.

First step is to go with dog engagement, then, move up to a sequential.

D

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by D K

You wont be able to shift fast enough to capitalize on the advantage that seq brings.

It's just bump up/bump down with the clutch automated, isn't it? Or do they still leave the clutch pedal in place?

[D K]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

It's just bump up/bump down with the clutch automated, isn't it? Or do they still leave the clutch pedal in place?

If you want the clutch actuation too, you need a positive displacement pump, a solenoid array and a whole fuckload of software.

Oh yeah, $$$ too

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by D K

If you want the clutch actuation too, you need a positive displacement pump, a solenoid array and a whole fuckload of software.

Oh yeah, $$$ too

So it is manually clutch in, paddle/stick shift, manually clutch out?


Well that defeats the whole purpose. I was thinking it would be like the WRC or other videos you see, where it's just bumping a paddle or a stick. Or like motorcycles, when you put a quick shifter on them. No manual clutch actuation; it's all electronically controlled.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by D K

Ive driven a few hewlands and quaifes in my time...

It makes no sense whatsoever to get a sequential synchro box.

You wont be able to shift fast enough to capitalize on the advantage that seq brings.

First step is to go with dog engagement, then, move up to a sequential.

D

Two separate paragraphs my friend. I was referring to PPG which offers "dog" engagement or "syncro". It's not a sequential transmission.

I would happily drive a syncro box with stronger gears like PPG make for the Impreza. Part of the reason is the banging takes it toll on other parts of the transmission. If every last fraction of a second matters above everything else then by all means for for the dog engagement.

I would choose whatever is stronger in terms of the standard H patter or the sequential but the sequential is considered a significant performance advantage so you get penalized for running it.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So it is manually clutch in, paddle/stick shift, manually clutch out?


Well that defeats the whole purpose. I was thinking it would be like the WRC or other videos you see, where it's just bumping a paddle or a stick. Or like motorcycles, when you put a quick shifter on them. No manual clutch actuation; it's all electronically controlled.

No you don't. They use a pressure sensitive gear selector that you run to your EMS to cut ignition/fuel to allow the shift. If you don't have something like a Hydra EMS, you just lift the throttle some to allow the shift. No clutch is needed but you can use it.

[mike the snake]

I see a lot of in-car vids of sequential dog boxes, where the up-shifts are no-clutch (because the ECU cuts ignition allowing the slam-shift) but on downshifting the driver Does still use the clutch.

I also see vids like rallycross, where both up and down shifting is no-clutch, basically slam-shifting up and down.

This, I think, is probably REALLY hard on the boxes, but these are high $$$ cars anyways and probably get rebuilt often enough for it not to matter.

[BRZGM3]

So for everyone who uses the car as a daily and doesn't want to run a sequential or have dog cut gears. Just a beefed up factory unit.
Is the cooler the only option??

[Reaper]

So far yes.

[BRZGM3]

Thanks Reaper, I feel like you answer alot of my questions

[Reaper]

Um...you didn't ask much. No one makes dog cut gears and they are extremely hard to daily drive in a hilly area. Sequentials cost almost as much as the car and require a stand alone ecu right now. They also require periodic maintenance. No one I've spoken with will produce a gearset for us. Every company I've spoke too says the factory box is not worth doing anything too. The fullblown v160 swap costs almost 10,000$ with everything and if you manage to hurt the v160 (not likely) I don't know of anyone that will work on it. A couple road race guys have put tremec tko s in but they must be worked over by liberty gear to shift at a high enough rpm. Element tuning is running an oil cooler and hasn't broken their second transmission yet and it's too early to tell. But the inspiration comes from a porche tranny that had a 200 wtq rated increase in capacity from Porsche when a cooler was added.

[mike the snake]

I found the Porsche increase in torque handling from just the addition of pump and cooler when I was researching transaxles for a mid-engined car I was planning on building.

You think gearboxes are expensive, you don't Even want to look at racing transaxles!

Keeping the heat in the gearbox down will go a long ways towards keeping the box together at higher torque numbers.

Originally Posted by Reaper

Um...you didn't ask much. No one makes dog cut gears and they are extremely hard to daily drive in a hilly area. Sequentials cost almost as much as the car and require a stand alone ecu right now. They also require periodic maintenance. No one I've spoken with will produce a gearset for us. Every company I've spoke too says the factory box is not worth doing anything too. The fullblown v160 swap costs almost 10,000$ with everything and if you manage to hurt the v160 (not likely) I don't know of anyone that will work on it. A couple road race guys have put tremec tko s in but they must be worked over by liberty gear to shift at a high enough rpm. Element tuning is running an oil cooler and hasn't broken their second transmission yet and it's too early to tell. But the inspiration comes from a porche tranny that had a 200 wtq rated increase in capacity from Porsche when a cooler was added.

[D K]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I found the Porsche increase in torque handling from just the addition of pump and cooler when I was researching transaxles for a mid-engined car I was planning on building.

You think gearboxes are expensive, you don't Even want to look at racing transaxles!

Keeping the heat in the gearbox down will go a long ways towards keeping the box together at higher torque numbers.

Keep in mind Porsche de-rates them to begin with.
Their boxes could take much more abuse, but they have a reputation to uphold.

[D K]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Two separate paragraphs my friend.

I would choose whatever is stronger in terms of the standard H patter or the sequential but the sequential is considered a significant performance advantage so you get penalized for running it.

Thats my point!

Sequential is like the cheese on the hamburger. Dog box is like the patty.
You have to have the burger first.

The reason for the penalty is they already take into account the fact that you already have a dog box