Questions before I buy a 2013 FR-S

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by sk47

Hello bigbadvoodooguru; I follow you line of thinking and see how it works.

My tendency has been to keep a car/truck for around a decade or more. My current car is a 2001 model bought as new in 2002. I managed a decent discount on the purchase price. My truck is a 2004 model bought new about two months after the build date. (This was due to the prior truck I owned for 12 years being totaled and needing a quick replacement.)

Were I inclined to trade often, you practice would seem to work out well in terms of money spent. I am not sure that I come out much, if any, better. I do avoid the pesky tax costs and other trade fees. I also like knowing how a vehicle is maintained from early on.

One thing the responses to this thread has helped me consider is the fact a 2013 has spent a lot of time just sitting around. Having some experience with cars that sit around a lot, I know how damaging that can be. I have a friend who buys nice cars and puts them up, often for months/years at a time. He will just start them and allow them to idle for a few minutes every month or two. When they no longer start I get a call. I have revived some a number of times, but they all have problems.

These side discussions are of interest. I will from time to time ask if anyone knows if or when the DI seals and pre-ignition (detonation) issues were addressed by Scion.

Don't know if you will ever get an "official" answer to your main question. I did a pile of research as well before buying the car (got burnt bad by Mitsubishi and wasn't doing THAT again) and although I found a few references to the seals and pre ignition there were not enough to scare me off. What I also noticed were that the vast majority of the posts were older and they seemed to peter out around mid summer last year. The very few posts that you still see pop up all seem to involve early run cars with no 2014s mentioned at all (that I could find). Many of the references to the problems were also on sites that seemed to have a bias against the car and had loads of quotes such as "we read" and "yet another HUGE problem". The other group that complained were those that had tuning done by people that screwed up really bad and caused the pre ignition in the first place.Not saying there was not a problem with the early cars but in this wondrous age of the internet it only takes a couple of guys to start the ball rolling with something and everybody else takes what they say as "fact".
I have little doubt there will now be several people saying how wrong I am but this was the info I found and I felt comfortable that the problem wasn't as huge as it appeared and had been corrected.


There are probably 5000 posts complaining about the HPFP noise for every reference to seals or pre ignition on here.

[thismock]

I've seen several 2013 10 Series cars sitting on lots across California (and other states), many of them marked at their original limited edition MSRP of $28k+. Over the last month or so, I've seen a few dealers steeply discount the car and have it sell within a few days. I suspect they're now trying to get rid of them as 2015's arrive. Other dealers are still listing 10 Series cars at MSRP. I got mine this weekend for $5k off MSRP.

The 10 Series cars are late model 2013's.. I recall that most were manufactured in summer of 2013. I suspect most of the early TSBs are a non-issue on the 10 Series since they were manufactured after the TSBs were announced.

That said, a future buyer is still going to consider a 2013 as a 2013. However, the 10 Series features sit about halfway between base and the 2014 monogram (given their HIDs, climate control, and 2014 audio).. so it's not exactly a fair comparison to use base model used 2013 prices as a benchmark for measuring possible depreciation of a new 2013 10 Series.

With a relatively rare configuration, future value of a 10 Series will vary widely on (1) how much the prospective buyer values that particular configuration, and (2) what configuration combinations Toyota / Subaru offer in the future. For example, if you want HIDs or push button on a Scion, your current options are limited to Series 10, Monogram, and Release 1.0. If you want either of those features without a factory spoiler, the 10 Series is currently the only option (without swapping trunks, which not everyone is keen on doing).

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Bigbadvoodooguru

All cars are depreciating assets, not investments.

Depreciating assets can be investments. CAPEX. Finance 101.

My BRZ is actually making me money.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Depreciating assets can be investments. CAPEX. Finance 101.

My BRZ is actually making me money.

Yup. If you use your car to drive to work, it is a capital investment.

[sk47]

Hello; Spoke to the salesman from the dealer that has the 2013 FR-S. I asked about the DI seals and pre-ignition isues. The answer was not exactly specific. He said any new car on the lot is serviced as the TSB's come in. I was led to believe that any issues are fixed if a TSB is in effect. Salesperson speak is an art form and sometimes what you think you hear is not exactly what is being communicated. I was left with the impression the two issues mentioned had been taken care of, but???

I also asked for the build date and the miles on the car. He said that the cars that sit on the lot are started and run around a bit on some sort of schedule. He also said that he thought fluids are replaced at correct intervials.

I mentioned being on a forum and how someone had made a better deal than the one he offered me. He, of course, came up with some clever counters. Might have been a demo. Might have had a repair. I forget the others.

By the way the FR-S in question is a 10 series with no options beyond what comes with that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by sk47

Hello; Spoke to the salesman from the dealer that has the 2013 FR-S. I asked about the DI seals and pre-ignition isues. The answer was not exactly specific. He said any new car on the lot is serviced as the TSB's come in. I was led to believe that any issues are fixed if a TSB is in effect. Salesperson speak is an art form and sometimes what you think you hear is not exactly what is being communicated. I was left with the impression the two issues mentioned had been taken care of, but???

I also asked for the build date and the miles on the car. He said that the cars that sit on the lot are started and run around a bit on some sort of schedule. He also said that he thought fluids are replaced at correct intervials.

I mentioned being on a forum and how someone had made a better deal than the one he offered me. He, of course, came up with some clever counters. Might have been a demo. Might have had a repair. I forget the others.

By the way the FR-S in question is a 10 series with no options beyond what comes with that.

Do you really think the sales staff have any clue at all if the TSBs have been done?
You seem to be fixated on the two issues so a 13 is probably not your best bet because you will always wonder when they are going to happen even if they never do. Probably better to go with a 14 where there is at least a reasonable comfort level the problem will not show up.
Just my 2 cents worth!!!!

[abraxis]

'13 Series 10 was produced right around the changeover to '14. Some things to think about. You will have to check the VIN versus the TSBs to make sure if they apply. You should have already done this if you are that concerned about them. Also, the 10 series could have been considered a '14 model but that would have put the anniversary at 11 years, not 10 years. I think many were built in May through June 2013 I believe. So the model year isn't necessarily the defining attribute, you need to look at the VIN and production date.

Oh, your sales guy is talking out his ass. You need to talk to a tech who can access Techstream.

[sk47]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Do you really think the sales staff have any clue at all if the TSBs have been done?
You seem to be fixated on the two issues so a 13 is probably not your best bet because you will always wonder when they are going to happen even if they never do. Probably better to go with a 14 where there is at least a reasonable comfort level the problem will not show up.
Just my 2 cents worth!!!!

Hello; You are essentially correct. I sort of doubt that a car sitting on a dealers lot will have DI seals replaced. I can see the upgraded part being cycled on an assembly line.

The 13's are going to be the best bet for a deal right now. It seems likely that the 10 series were produced later in the 2013 production run. For the very reason you stated I passed up getting a low mileage Porsche Cayman after learning of the Intermediate shaft bearing issues they have. Only about 10% of the Porsche engines have been affected, but that was enough to back me off.

I have picked up some useful information from the discussion in this thread. Knowing that some dealers are flexable is one thing. It also seems a good chance that the factory fix may have been in effect for all the 2014's and perhaps also some of the late 2013's as a member pointed out.

[sk47]

Originally Posted by abraxis

'13 Series 10 was produced right around the changeover to '14. Some things to think about. You will have to check the VIN versus the TSBs to make sure if they apply. You should have already done this if you are that concerned about them. Also, the 10 series could have been considered a '14 model but that would have put the anniversary at 11 years, not 10 years. I think many were built in September and October 2013. So the model year isn't necessarily the defining attribute, you need to look at the VIN and production date.

Hello; I have the VIN and have made some attempts at matching the TSB's. Not exactly determined how to do this well as yet. I think I matched a TSB from December 5, 2013 (intermittent RPM Drop Condition) 5-SB-0040-13.
The sales man is supposed to send me the build date

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by sk47

Hello; I have the VIN and have made some attempts at matching the TSB's. Not exactly determined how to do this well as yet. I think I matched a TSB from December 5, 2013 (intermittent RPM Drop Condition) 5-SB-0040-13.
The sales man is supposed to send me the build date

This bulletin applies to vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown below.

EFFECTIVE VIN
A/T
JF1ZNAA1#E8703673

M/T
JF1ZNAA1#E9703671

Mine is a #D******* Correction, it was made in May. So it would be eligible for the flash.

Did you look at page 4 of the TSB? There is supposed to be a label under the hood when the TSB is performed to log it. Tell that to the sales person when you inspect under the hood.

[sk47]

Originally Posted by abraxis

This bulletin applies to vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown below.

EFFECTIVE VIN
A/T
JF1ZNAA1#E8703673

M/T
JF1ZNAA1#E9703671

Mine is a #D******* Correction, it was made in May. So it would be eligible for the flash.

Did you look at page 4 of the TSB? There is supposed to be a label under the hood when the TSB is performed to log it. Tell that to the sales person when you inspect under the hood.

Hello; The vin on the FR-S is also a D. (JF1ZNAA15D1729476)

[sk47]

Hell; Got an interesting call today from the salesman at the dealership who claims he cannot negociate due to Scion rules. I described the deal I am working on at a different dealer. In response to him saying he would like to sell me a car, I told him that he can with the right price.

He tried a different tactic. Said only independent dealers can negociate prices and that if I buy from one I will have to go back to that dealer for any service or warranty work.

At any rate he will not meet or beat the price. I believe these dealers can check around and find out what the Scions are selling for and suggested that he do so.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by sk47

He tried a different tactic. Said only independent dealers can negociate prices and that if I buy from one I will have to go back to that dealer for any service or warranty work.

I bought mine at a BMW dealer and just had the 7500 maintenance done at the local Toyota dealer for free.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by sk47

Hell; Got an interesting call today from the salesman at the dealership who claims he cannot negociate due to Scion rules. I described the deal I am working on at a different dealer. In response to him saying he would like to sell me a car, I told him that he can with the right price.

He tried a different tactic. Said only independent dealers can negociate prices and that if I buy from one I will have to go back to that dealer for any service or warranty work.

At any rate he will not meet or beat the price. I believe these dealers can check around and find out what the Scions are selling for and suggested that he do so.

That salesman is a lying cheating fuck. I'd tell him so too.