FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Element Tuning]

So keep in mind a 0w40 is not the same as 40w. I have also found 0w40 to be a poor oil at high temps and it has a lot to do with the large viscosity spread. Polymers are added to the oils to get this large spread and it makes the oil less stable at higher temps contrary to the advertised viscosity. A 10w30 actually works much better than a 0w40 from my testing.

Last but not least don't expect the world from your oil's rated viscosity as once hot, you will be lucky to get +5-10 psi which is why it was so critical I added a Perrin Oil Cooler kit to our car. So the actual viscosity of the 50w race oil I run may only be a 30w at 260F. Now I know 50w sounds scary to some but Red Line race 50 actually has a 15w50 rating but it just stays in grade so much better than most oils at suoer high temps.

Don't be affraid to to go up in viscosity to test yourself as I can tell you with absolute certainty there are no clearances in your motor that should freak you out. If you need to daily drive in freezing temps 10w30 is probably the highest you want to go for boosted cars but in the summer I've needed everything a 50w can give me. NA guys should probably stick to 0w20 or 5w30 for winter use.

For what it's worth our race car runs 50w Red Line Race even in 30 degree temps. Even with a mini battery, dry sump, Hydra EMS stand-alone, big valve heads, and 280 cams, it starts right up and that says alot about how well that oil flows (non synthetic or even blends at the same viscosity are extremely hard to start by comparison).

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

...and 280 cams...

Totally off topic but this is the first i have read about this

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Totally off topic but this is the first i have read about this

Oh I'm talking about the 700 hp race car.....our STi. LOL!

[Brzzee]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Many of the aftermarket pans I'm seeing are not a good design for road racing as they are making the bottom of the pan flat which just give the oil more room to move away from the pickup. The pickup area should be "sumped."

The thread pitch of the oil galley for the mains is 18 x 1.5mm.

Just remember an oil accumulator like the "Accusump" will not increase your oil pressure which is the main issue (we did this with internal engine mods and the oil cooler). Now with NA the OEM oil pressure isn't a deal breaker so the oil accumulator is more about having some extra capacity and for the times the oil pickup may starve momentarily.

Warning: Your oil accumulator can hold 3+ quarts more than your standard oil capacity which means you have a problem when it pushes that into your motor. If you notice on my race car I'm running a 1 gallon breather/catch tank. Only severe oil starvation or high RPM pressure drop would cause it to push that much oil into the motor however.

If we were building this on a customer's car you need to design the entire system accordingly or your car could spill oil out a dinky and worthless catch can causing a fire or sucking it into the intake.

Currently I'm using a Crawford AOS. I'm uncertain where an additional oil catch - expansion tank is plumbed to contain the additional Accusump dispensed oil. I spoke with Canton about oil starvation prevention NA and a 2 QT unit was suggested. I thought to mount it as your image in post #101 shows attached to the struct brace. Would/could/should a "larger" catch can be inserted between the engine and the AOS when the 2QT is installed--Your comments in post #122 not withstanding?

Really appreciate all the work ET has put into the FA platform.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Brzzee

Currently I'm using a Crawford AOS. I'm uncertain where an additional oil catch - expansion tank is plumbed to contain the additional Accusump dispensed oil. I spoke with Canton about oil starvation prevention NA and a 2 QT unit was suggested. I thought to mount it as your image in post #101 shows attached to the struct brace. Would/could/should a "larger" catch can be inserted between the engine and the AOS when the 2QT is installed--Your comments in post #122 not withstanding?

Really appreciate all the work ET has put into the FA platform.

Ok let's go into details about how our oiling system worked over last weekends Trans Am/Whelen USTT Championship at Lime Rock. Overall we are extremely happy the engine not only survived but it ran flawlessly over the entire racing weekend!




Here are the 25 seconds of Lime Rock Park that make you want to go back!!! We just missed out on first place at the Trans AM and Whelen USTT Championship in TT1 to a race prepped GT Viper by 4/100ths of a second and just in front of a USGT GT2 Z06. Given that has been a winning car and we are no where near TT1 spec (we just decided to up class the car since we are not in the championship running)

The overall package of our engine oiling mods from the Element Tuning Pro Comp motor build, the Perrin oil cooler, to the oil accumulator did exactly what we needed it to! The engine was absolutely screaming around the track all weekend and we were typically running 6-8 laps per session. What I noticed was very consistent oil pressure once up to racing temperatures. So at the start of my session for the 2 warm up laps I would see around 75 psi and then after I really got into my timed runs I was seeing 60-65 psi until the last lap. For this power level it's a win, win, win!!!!!!

We have a total of about 10 quarts of oil between the engine, Perrin oil cooler, plus our accumulator kit and it was filled with Red Line 50w Race. The accumulator was definitely working as we were getting pretty large amounts of oil in our catch tank. Because we really wanted to know how this affected the system we did not drain back and what we noticed was about 3/4 to one full quart of oil is pushed into our catch tank. Before anyone panics just keep in mind 9k RPM and we are rocking 325 racing slicks so this is not your chick's FRS! Because we run a 1 gallon catch tank we let it ride for about 3 sessions and pulled out about 2.5 quarts of oil but still had zero issues with oil pressure or oil starvation.

I think it's really important if guys decide to make your own kit instead of buying one, you understand the needs of the entire system! I think ultimately a large capacity catch tank with a drain back will be ideal. Without our internal engine oiling mods there is no way we would have had enough oil pressure however.

In other bad news the transmission let go on day 2. We honestly were expecting it at some point and have a spare but I thought it would hold out for this event. 4th gear sheared off accelerating in the back section. Now on street tires the box was fine at this power level since you can factor in wheel slip but not on slicks.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[mike the snake]

Do you think running an oil cooler for the transmission might help it handle the bigger power?

I know bad things happen to gearboxes when the oil gets hot.

[Element Tuning]

From what I understand adding a cooler should help but by how much is the question. I don't have first hand knowledge using one but I'm planning on fitting one to both the FRS and the STi.

[mike the snake]

I think you'll find that adding the trans cooler will increase the torque that the box can handle by a lot more than you'd think.

When I was researching Porsche transaxles (back when I raced Porsches) on some models, the only difference was the addition of the cooler and pump and the trans was then miraculously rated for an extra 200ft/lbs torque.

Just like you've found with the engine, I think if you can add a cooler and pump and keep the oil temps down really low, you'll probably get away without blowing more boxes.

[cdrazic93]

soooooo many coolers

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I think you'll find that adding the trans cooler will increase the torque that the box can handle by a lot more than you'd think.

When I was researching Porsche transaxles (back when I raced Porsches) on some models, the only difference was the addition of the cooler and pump and the trans was then miraculously rated for an extra 200ft/lbs torque.

Just like you've found with the engine, I think if you can add a cooler and pump and keep the oil temps down really low, you'll probably get away without blowing more boxes.

I was aware of that but skeptical. Temperature control is very important however and a broken down oil or thinned out oil can cause for stress to the gears so the logic is most certainly there. I'm willing and hopeful it will help so I'm going for it.

Maybe I can talk Jeff Perrin into making one for us

[mike the snake]

YES!!!

That's what it takes. Cool parts last longer.

Just look at Nascar cars on the big tracks, the rear windows have 3-4 NACA ducts on each side. Cooling and ducting for brakes, rear diff, transmission, and everything else.

I think it was Full Blown that blew a 4th gear at around 600+ whp, but that was on the dyno. At high temps, that same gear would probably blow at under 400whp.

I raced the 24 hours of Lemons, and saw many cars drop out at the end from heat, mainly blown diffs and gearboxes. I saw a cooler made from junkyard parts, driven off the driveshaft, that worked brilliantly.

Even a simple system using tapped fill and drain plugs with a cooler and pump can drastically lower the trans temps.

Elaborate race cooling systems have internal spray bars that spray the fluid directly where it's supposed to go, but a simple system would cost a couple hundred bucks and keep Element Tuning's trans in one piece I bet.

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

soooooo many coolers

[Element Tuning]

Alright I have a basic plan on the parts I'll need to get for the transmission cooler so I can have it for VIR this weekend. I'll have to detune the car slightly for NASA TT2 since they have a tire rule that penalizes the tires I run but I think it will still be a good test.

This is also likely the last time I torture test (race) this "intermediate" oiling system before moving on to an external and or dry sump oil setup. It will likely still be on this car for some time as I do drive this car on the street and it has proven more than up to the task.

[Calum]

I was changing my oil the other day and looking at the filter got me thinking. Did you guys test it with a larger oil filter to see if they tiny factory unit was flowing enough?

[sam69]

Could be worth checking this stuff out as well ... http://www.itwpf.com.au/molybond_lub...x?productid=69

I have used this stuff for years but in 4x4's and can say without a doubt it helps in high stress applications such as gearbox's.

Anyway could be worth checking out for yourself but I'm sure it would be beneficial to help keep your gearbox in one piece.