Spec Ft86 racer in the future?

[phastafrican]

I only did time trial because the car wasn't paid off and I didn't have all my safety. Once it was paid off, straight to racing. But I'll join any session at a NASA event, including Time Trial, to play around with my friends and maybe win some tires and money for brakes

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by philooo

@phastafrican so is that your plan so far ?

time attach TTD and racing in PTD ?
How do you find your power to weight ratio ? for the weight I get it but for power do they use the factory specification ?
Then you just add weight in case you lighten the car too much ?

Power to weight for NASA TTD and NASA PTD is in the rule book: 14.5:1
Yes, there is a minimum competition weight for the car at 2885lbs. So I have to add almost 100lbs of ballast and at least half tank of gas to be legal at the end of a 45min race.

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Got to have a Spec kit setup like Spec Miata. If it deviates from that, then yea... Maybe something crappy like non-adjustable shocks Bilsteins + lowering springs.

Agreed. There could be a spec kit for Time trial, but the challenge is that people want to customize their DDs to their liking. Racecars are disposable so that's way easier to enforce.
Bilsteins plus springs seem like the way to go.

Edit: we could get fancy and go AST 4150 plus swift springs. Not cheap though.

[rice_classic]

A primary factor to starting a successful spec series in grassroots racing is a car that is both plentiful in numbers and cheap to purchase.

Right now the next big spec series getting started that has been adopted by SCCA, NASA and the local Conference in the PacNW is Spec E46. It has support from the Bimmerworld group and many other groups around the country. The cost of the car is cheap (<10k) and the cost of the build is reasonable (<25k). Some of the folks are saying a fully race prepped out-the-door cost of a Spec E46 can be done in the $25k range.

So I'm with Phasta here. If the Twins continue to sell well (or well enough) and can get down to 10k used commonly then I see a Spec86 series having some success.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by phastafrican

Agreed. There could be a spec kit for Time trial, but the challenge is that people want to customize their DDs to their liking. Racecars are disposable so that's way easier to enforce.
Bilsteins plus springs seem like the way to go.

Edit: we could get fancy and go AST 4150 plus swift springs. Not cheap though.

I had an idea of maybe doing something similar to this:

Camber Plates
SPL Rear LCA
Bilstein B6
Swift Spec-R (staggered rates)
17x8.0
225/45/17 RA, NT01, RC1
Studs
Factory brake system
Pads are open
Brake lines are open

Hard to enforce everything though.

Initial investment is around 5k or so even with some exhaust components & tune. Use all factory safety equipment so people don't go modifying stupid stuff and hurting themselves if something happens. Obviously I'm not too familiar with spec, but we toyed with a S2k Challenge spec class before.

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

A primary factor to starting a successful spec series in grassroots racing is a car that is both plentiful in numbers and cheap to purchase.

Right now the next big spec series getting started that has been adopted by SCCA, NASA and the local Conference in the PacNW is Spec E46. It has support from the Bimmerworld group and many other groups around the country. The cost of the car is cheap (<10k) and the cost of the build is reasonable (<25k). Some of the folks are saying a fully race prepped out-the-door cost of a Spec E46 can be done in the $25k range.

So I'm with Phasta here. If the Twins continue to sell well (or well enough) and can get down to 10k used commonly then I see a Spec86 series having some success.

James Clay is just looking for an excuse to sell more parts and grow his business. I can't knock him down for that. Spec3 hasn't even taken off yet, and here we go with SpecE46 backed by Bimmerworld. Levine and Tower got tired of getting beat by Grace, Palacio, and Schwartz so moved on to start something new. The E46 is my favorite chassis, and if I'd known they were working on it before I gutted my car, I'd probably be aboard that train as well since GTS3 has always been very much out of my budget... but I digress.

5-7 years is when the car is expected to fall in that KBB range...so until then, NASA PT and SCCA T4 are where it'll have to compete. There's just so much excitement that no one seems to want to wait that long. I for one wish it were here already.

[phastafrican]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I had an idea of maybe doing something similar to this:

Camber Plates
SPL Rear LCA
Bilstein B6
Swift Spec-R (staggered rates)
17x8.0
225/45/17 RA, NT01, RC1
Studs
Factory brake system
Pads are open
Brake lines are open

Hard to enforce everything though.

Initial investment is around 5k or so even with some exhaust components & tune. Use all factory safety equipment so people don't go modifying stupid stuff and hurting themselves if something happens. Obviously I'm not too familiar with spec, but we toyed with a S2k Challenge spec class before.

I was thinking along the same lines when I first called to bug you about fuel tank location. Figured you'd be happy to put together a kit like that in the near future. But it'll be tough.
SCCA STX guys have put on the best stuff to compete against the other cars in class.
SCCA T4 has min competition weight of ~3000lbs and doesn't allow LCA so that's tough.
NASA PT/TT values LCAs at 4 pts, and given that -2.5 can be achieved with just ride height, probably not worth it either. Plus there are all the other cars that are competing in the same class with better suspension. So you almost want the best suspension for the points you spend.
I need a 3rd set of wheels/tires for rains anyway, so I'm cool with running RC-1s or whatever in a Spec86 group.
Count me in for the B6/B8+SpecR combo. I'll give it a shot for a year and see how well they hold up. Rebuilding once a year will be acceptable. Without LCAs, I'd probably opt for B8 for the added rear camber.
If you want to test out some spring rates, go ahead. I have everything from extremely bumpy Sebring to fairly smooth Road Atlanta in my calendar so I'll be compromising no matter what. Stock valving and fixed springs won't be the fastest against some of the other cars, but if that entices 4 more DDs into TT for my 15 race weekends then it'll be worth it.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by phastafrican

I was thinking along the same lines when I first called to bug you about fuel tank location. Figured you'd be happy to put together a kit like that in the near future. But it'll be tough.
SCCA STX guys have put on the best stuff to compete against the other cars in class.
SCCA T4 has min competition weight of ~3000lbs and doesn't allow LCA so that's tough.
NASA PT/TT values LCAs at 4 pts, and given that -2.5 can be achieved with just ride height, probably not worth it either. Plus there are all the other cars that are competing in the same class with better suspension. So you almost want the best suspension for the points you spend.
I need a 3rd set of wheels/tires for rains anyway, so I'm cool with running RC-1s or whatever in a Spec86 group.
Count me in for the B6/B8+SpecR combo. I'll give it a shot for a year and see how well they hold up. Rebuilding once a year will be acceptable. Without LCAs, I'd probably opt for B8 for the added rear camber.
If you want to test out some spring rates, go ahead. I have everything from extremely bumpy Sebring to fairly smooth Road Atlanta in my calendar so I'll be compromising no matter what. Stock valving and fixed springs won't be the fastest against some of the other cars, but if that entices 4 more DDs into TT for my 15 race weekends then it'll be worth it.

Yea Mike and I have been discussing a lot about spec class setups. The package we discussed was something that sounded a little out of the box, but actually really formidable against competitors. Will it be enough to beat other class cars? Not sure, but if NASA/SCCA somehow allows some sort of TT session for 86 Spec'd cars, that'll be interesting.

We have a very good relationship with Swift Springs as well so we can formulate any custom rate we want. We're still developing our Bilstein relationship right now. Cusco and TEIN actually have shocks available that can be revalved according to our specifications. We've been spending a lot of time on the shock dyno and working with some experts in the field to come up with a more specialized valving spec for the TEIN SRCs so we have a pretty good idea of what will work on very bumpy tracks if necessary for a spec class suspension setup. Of course, everything is all talk unless there's some serious consideration from the community to make it happen.

[SubiePig]

All this talk of spec racing makes me excited. When the car is fully paid off and the cars are getting cheaper I hope this becomes a thing. Till then, TTC is where I will stay. Competitive STX car mods throw it out of TTD sadly.

[philooo]

If CSG could offer a spec package, even without any racing series in place, I think many enthusiast would bite.
Picking parts at random or spending countless hours researching what works together is getting old quickly.
If only there was a spec package I'd jump in.

Of course if the package could be modular to easily switch to STX or TTD, then we would have a winner