Innovate's Twin screw super charger

[jebuwh]

Originally Posted by stevo585

What? I do not have an ESC nor do I want one. I'm just trying to compare the two basic kits. If you don't want to ok.

No no no not you. Lol sorry should have quoted someone. I mean the fast Freddy guy.

I think they are very comparable!

[stevo585]

[QUOTE=jebuwh;1935228]No no no not you. Lol sorry should have quoted someone. I mean the fast Freddy guy.

I think they are very comparable![/QUOTE

Ok haha np. Finally someone on my side!

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by stevo585

No you are. Thanks for the response, tough crowd in here. I did not mean to be rude.

So please correct me. You could also use that downshift logic with a centrifugal kit...you know above 5-6k where they are much more powerful. The naming is just semantics right, call it whatever you want. And yes Audi is and that's my point the superior low end power of electric FI. To your other comment no one talks about nitrous so I have no choice haha otherwise I would debate them.

I was simply trying to compare a stage 1 innovate to a ESC. Apples to apples (maybe I failed on that, awaiting your correction to my dyno numbers).

If no one wants to compare them because one is full time and the other is on demand, ok, fine lets stop the debate if no one agrees the ESC is very close ~80% in peak numbers to a stage 1 kit.

I think a good place to end this worthless thread is the "no comparison" argument. Despite the similarities they're just too different to warrant direct comparison.

Not to nitpick but you did misquote 2.0 dump dyno numbers as 1.5 numbers and neglected to mention the hours of custom tuning included to get those numbers.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by stevo585

No you are. Thanks for the response, tough crowd in here. I did not mean to be rude.

So please correct me. You could also use that downshift logic with a centrifugal kit...you know above 5-6k where they are much more powerful. The naming is just semantics right, call it whatever you want. And yes Audi is and that's my point the superior low end power of electric FI. To your other comment no one talks about nitrous so I have no choice haha otherwise I would debate them.

I was simply trying to compare a stage 1 innovate to a ESC. Apples to apples (maybe I failed on that, awaiting your correction to my dyno numbers).

If no one wants to compare them because one is full time and the other is on demand, ok, fine lets stop the debate if no one agrees the ESC is very close ~80% in peak numbers to a stage 1 kit.

Don't bother Stevo. "Fast" Fredo is the resident troll in the Phantom Supercharger thread. He got blown out of the thread on his last troll attempt a few months back and then recently started up again. His M.O. is to lurk, then post some lame troll bait post and wait for anyone who doesn't know this to take the bait. Don't waste your breath.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Khorne

@stevo585 you can use the edit button, you quoted one post in 3 replies.
Before you sperg out more he's not attack Electric superchargers in general, they are forced induction, BUT!
They really cannot be compared to a system where boost is there and usable all the time, a system that has the charge temps cooled (fuck a non intercooled system imo) and does not rely on a small and quickly usable power source. On a track a lone ESC is next to useless as boost will not be readily available and heat soak will be horrible with the phantom.

Your Audi example is stupid as it has turbos as well.

As an actual owner of a Phantom ESC I can tell you that this isn't the case as just like any other F.I. solution the ESC has developed beyond this initial limitation. 1.5x dump upgrade adds additional juice and now the AUX charger has been introduced and is in the hands of some users that reduces the recharge load on the main charger. This was a very low cost addition that spreads the recharge load effectively doing away with most heat issues. Passive cooling in the form of ducts completes the picture but is not necessary.

Charge cooling isn't needed at the boost levels the Phantom puts out. It helps produce more power but 4-6 psi isn't going to wreck anyone's engine when tuned properly. Importantly that 4-6 psi is virtually non-parisitic though so you end up with similar real-world performance as a 7-9 psi traditional F.I. kit.

I've taken many people on rides in my car and the response has always been extremely positive. The ESC torque characteristics and seat of the pants experience really needs to be felt to be understood. But to give an idea you can check out the Phantom ESC 1.5x @ est 215 WHP vs Kraftwerks SC @ 300WHP rolling drag video in the Phantom ESC thread. The Phantom equipped car rolls ahead till about mid 3rd gear, when the KW car pulls ahead and away. Mid third-gear at WOT for me is well above speeds at most technical tracks in So Cal (except Big Willow and only in some places). Or check out the videos on the first page as early version Phantom equipped cars walk on many other lauded makes/models. Max WHP and WTQ dyno comparisons don't reflect area under the curve, and that's where the Phantom kit makes it's money.

Look, it's new tech, and new tech is almost always shunned before it becomes mainstream (just think of EFI vs. carburation). However it's been said over and over again. Electric F.I. is here and from every major mfg in the next 5 years. The Phantom kit has developed FAST for this platform. The initial minor issues are being resolved faster than just about any other bolt-on power adder I've seen. It's a boon for us. So hop on board, and don't let trolls like Fredo influence your critical thought.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Don't bother Stevo. "Fast" Fredo is the resident troll in the Phantom Supercharger thread. He got blown out of the thread on his last troll attempt a few months back and then recently started up again.

Daemano is referring to an instance where he made some of his typically exaggerated claims and then refused to reply to my rebuttal. If you want to hear great things about ESC with none of the bad, Daemano's your guy.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Daemano is referring to an instance where he made some of his typically exaggerated claims and then refused to reply to my rebuttal. If you want to hear great things about ESC with none of the bad, Daemano's your guy.

You say exactly the same thing about anyone that replies to you. Your waste of air is all over the Phantom thread, same M.O. every time. It's kind of pathetic.

[Fast_Freddy]

Speaking of pathetic:

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Importantly that 4-6 psi is virtually non-parisitic though so you end up with similar real-world performance as a 7-9 psi traditional F.I. kit.

ROFLMAO!!!

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Speaking of pathetic:
ROFLMAO!!!

Speaking of posting 1 generic chart to support your point. I got logs all day with showing 4-5lbs of boost with a TQ250, many others have posted the same. The TQ300 will have no problem exceeding that. Are you done? And you still haven't answered my question about where your F.I. is Fredo? Oh that's right...

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Speaking of posting 1 generic chart to support your point. I got logs all day with showing 4-5lbs of boost with a TQ250, many others have posted the same. The TQ300 will have no problem exceeding that. Are you done? And you still haven't answered my question about where your F.I. is Fredo? Oh that's right...

Oh, now it's down to 4-5 psi. What happened to 4-6 psi and equal to a turbo making 7-9 psi?


Pretty impressive that your TQ250 makes 4-5 psi all the way to redline. Would you mind posting one of those logs?


As you well know I am currently running N/A and blindly envious of you lucky guys with the battery powered blow driers strapped to your engines.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Oh, now it's down to 4-5 psi. What happened to 4-6 psi and equal to a turbo making 7-9 psi?


Pretty impressive that your TQ250 makes 4-5 psi all the way to redline. Would you mind posting one of those logs?


As you well know I am currently running N/A and blindly envious of you lucky guys with the battery powered blow driers strapped to your engines.

Reading is fundamental so check again, I'll spell it out for you 4-5 on my TQ250 logs, 5-6 on TQ300. My logs are posted in the other thread you spam up with your nonsense.

You've been running N/A for a long time for a guy that posts so much in F.I. threads Fredo.

Dude, you contribute nothing.

No more troll food for you.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Reading is fundamental so check again, I'll spell it out for you 4-5 on my TQ250 logs, 5-6 on TQ300. My logs are posted in the other thread you spam up with your nonsense.

You've been running N/A for a long time for a guy that posts so much in F.I. threads Fredo.

Dude, you contribute nothing.

No more troll food for you.

C'mon man, let's see those logs! How did you manage to maintain 4-5 psi to redline when everyone else's ESC drops off to 1-2 psi?


Contribute something dude.


BTW, just because I don't have FI on this car doesn't mean that I know as little about it as you do.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

C'mon man, let's see those logs! How did you manage to maintain 4-5 psi to redline when everyone else's ESC drops off to 1-2 psi?


Contribute something dude.


BTW, just because I don't have FI on this car doesn't mean that I know as little about it as you do.

You added the "at redline" part, not me. You keep spewing it looking for a way to pivot the conversation, not answer questions, or be truthful whatsoever. Nobody buys you're "I'm shining a light on all these lying ESC owners" one bit.

You know why not? Because there are tons of VERY happy Phantom ESC owners who are extremely satisfied with their purchase. There's a waiting list about 50-60 deep for the following ESC batches. There are also Miata owners who have received their kits who are also very happy. The product is out and it works. The dozens of dynos, videos, and anecdotes all flesh that out. You, in your ignorance rushed to judge the product and were wrong. The Phantom ESC is a great buy and it gets better every month. Your ridiculous personal war is over and guess what, you lost.

You expose yourself at every lame attempt to pivot and/or manipulate the discussion. It becomes even more clear when you won't answer questions. Even more so when you lash out and make childish remarks. People read right through it. You're actions make you the definition of an internet troll.

Fredo, seriously, man to man. Every time you lie, white lie or major fib, you're telling the person you're talking to that you that think they're dumb or that you think you are smarter than they are. Do you understand this? Especially on the internet where the words are frozen in time. So just like when a child fibs to an adult. We smirk at you, chuckle to ourselves and let you continue on making an ass out of yourself. This is why people don't like you (both on this board on the internet, and probably IRL). You're not smarter than everyone else that reads your posts. I hope that point sinks in and somehow helps you in life. Peace.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

As an actual owner of a Phantom ESC I can tell you that this isn't the case as just like any other F.I. solution the ESC has developed beyond this initial limitation. 1.5x dump upgrade adds additional juice and now the AUX charger has been introduced and is in the hands of some users that reduces the recharge load on the main charger. This was a very low cost addition that spreads the recharge load effectively doing away with most heat issues. Passive cooling in the form of ducts completes the picture but is not necessary.

Charge cooling isn't needed at the boost levels the Phantom puts out. It helps produce more power but 4-6 psi isn't going to wreck anyone's engine when tuned properly. Importantly that 4-6 psi is virtually non-parisitic though so you end up with similar real-world performance as a 7-9 psi traditional F.I. kit.

I've taken many people on rides in my car and the response has always been extremely positive. The ESC torque characteristics and seat of the pants experience really needs to be felt to be understood. But to give an idea you can check out the Phantom ESC 1.5x @ est 215 WHP vs Kraftwerks SC @ 300WHP rolling drag video in the Phantom ESC thread. The Phantom equipped car rolls ahead till about mid 3rd gear, when the KW car pulls ahead and away. Mid third-gear at WOT for me is well above speeds at most technical tracks in So Cal (except Big Willow and only in some places). Or check out the videos on the first page as early version Phantom equipped cars walk on many other lauded makes/models. Max WHP and WTQ dyno comparisons don't reflect area under the curve, and that's where the Phantom kit makes it's money.

Look, it's new tech, and new tech is almost always shunned before it becomes mainstream (just think of EFI vs. carburation). However it's been said over and over again. Electric F.I. is here and from every major mfg in the next 5 years. The Phantom kit has developed FAST for this platform. The initial minor issues are being resolved faster than just about any other bolt-on power adder I've seen. It's a boon for us. So hop on board, and don't let trolls like Fredo influence your critical thought.

Good points and good review. Electric FI is indeed coming Audi and BMW are working on it as we have seen the articles/rumors. I still feel like I would be disappointed with the ESC's output. There is also the issue of a lack of performance figures or examples other than the Rotrex kit video which was fairly impressive since I've been in a well tuned JRSC powered 86 before. Few to none can supply a quarter mile time or trap speed to give some reference. Maybe as more kits become available and installed it will be known more.