Porsche Cayman S

[misooscar]

Originally Posted by juliog

Buy a Corvette, they're great sleepers —nobody expects their drivers to drive them fast!

I wouldn't consider the new one sleepers...

I have had multiple vettes race me in my 200 stock hp frs

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by misooscar

And the reason not to just buy a Cayman, I want a sleeper

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If you want a "sleeper" you're better off with the Cayman then a modded and tuned FR-S/BRZ.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I read some where that as they were co-developing the twins they always had a Cayman near by. The Cayman was the handing target for the FT86 platform.

Forget the panty-dropping-factor, or the huge difference in luxury and refinement that separate these two platforms. Which do you think would be cheaper to keep over 4-6 years; A modded 300WHP FR-S or a Cayman S?

[Tcoat]

I raced 5 vetted on Friday. Kicked their buts too. They were on the back of a truck. Got cool pic but it didn't upload.

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by misooscar

And the reason not to just buy a Cayman, I want a sleeper

Sleeper is a Focus ST dressed up as a Focus Edge 1.0 Ecoboost. The Twins are as much of a sleeper car as the Cayman.

[misooscar]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

If you want a "sleeper" you're better off with the Cayman then a modded and tuned FR-S/BRZ.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I read some where that as they were co-developing the twins they always had a Cayman near by. The Cayman was the handing target for the FT86 platform.

Forget the panty-dropping-factor, or the huge difference in luxury and refinement that separate these two platforms. Which do you think would be cheaper to keep over 4-6 years; A modded 300WHP FR-S or a Cayman S?

I guess time will tell

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[misooscar]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

If you want a "sleeper" you're better off with the Cayman then a modded and tuned FR-S/BRZ.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I read some where that as they were co-developing the twins they always had a Cayman near by. The Cayman was the handing target for the FT86 platform.

Forget the panty-dropping-factor, or the huge difference in luxury and refinement that separate these two platforms. Which do you think would be cheaper to keep over 4-6 years; A modded 300WHP FR-S or a Cayman S?

close call...time will tell

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by misooscar

close call...time will tell

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I've backed my self into a corner of sorts; RWD only, I don't want another BMW, can't really winter a Corvette or an Elise in Chicago, can't afford a 911, don't want a 4 door, or a convertible (so the Miata and S2000 is out). What's left is a Genesis, FR-S/BRZ, the 370z and the Caymen.

The FR-S and the Cayman are the only two sub 3000lbs cars out of the group of four (with the FR-S being the lightest). So...

I was going to trade in my FR-S in for a base Cayman before I thought about it but instead I'm going to mod the FR-S.

On paper the Cayman is perfect (Mid-engined, perfect 50/50 weight balance, strong NA motor, great wheels&tires, awesome brakes, refined quiet interior) and expensive. Over twice the price. WAYYYY better resale value. Automatic superficial social status bump (for those who care)

Take an FR-S and dump $15k into turbo, cooling, exhaust, and brake upgrades and you have a paper tiger thats $15k cheaper then a Cayman and out preforms a Cayman S. The only issue is that's it's a kludge of other people's parts (OPP YO!) and I wonder about longevity

(don't mind me, I'm thinking "out loud"...)

[paros28]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

I read some where that as they were co-developing the twins they always had a Cayman near by. The Cayman was the handing target for the FT86 platform.

Yep.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

I've backed my self into a corner of sorts; RWD only, I don't want another BMW, can't really winter a Corvette or an Elise in Chicago, can't afford a 911, don't want a 4 door, or a convertible (so the Miata and S2000 is out). What's left is a Genesis, FR-S/BRZ, the 370z and the Caymen.

The FR-S and the Cayman are the only two sub 3000lbs cars out of the group of four (with the FR-S being the lightest). So...

I was going to trade in my FR-S in for a base Cayman before I thought about it but instead I'm going to mod the FR-S.

On paper the Cayman is perfect (Mid-engined, perfect 50/50 weight balance, strong NA motor, great wheels&tires, awesome brakes, refined quiet interior) and expensive. Over twice the price. WAYYYY better resale value. Automatic superficial social status bump (for those who care)

Take an FR-S and dump $15k into turbo, cooling, exhaust, and brake upgrades and you have a paper tiger thats $15k cheaper then a Cayman and out preforms a Cayman S. The only issue is that's it's a kludge of other people's parts (OPP YO!) and I wonder about longevity

(don't mind me, I'm thinking "out loud"...)

Here's something to consider: Which car do you think will cost you more over 5 years of ownership, including reselling the car. A new FRS with $15k in mods or a 3-4 year old CPO Cayman S?

The answer is the FRS. You'll take a big hit on buying a new car, and then get little return, if any, for all the money dumped into modifications.

Of course not everything is about money. Some people like tuning for the sake of tuning.

[df.dima]

There's a similar topic on miata.net right now talking about modded NB miata vs Boxster.

I would buy a CS.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Here's something to consider: Which car do you think will cost you more over 5 years of ownership, including reselling the car. A new FRS with $15k in mods or a 3-4 year old CPO Cayman S?

The answer is the FRS. You'll take a big hit on buying a new car, and then get little return, if any, for all the money dumped into modifications.

Of course not everything is about money. Some people like tuning for the sake of tuning.

New modded FR-S vs. CPO Cayman S. Now that's a tempting question. A quick look at porsche.com's CPO search turned up a few 2010-2011's that meet the criteria and would end up costing an average of $53,500. Basically the cost of a new Cayman ($52,600.00 MSRP).

There's still a pretty serious amount of deprecation left on our hypothetical Cayman S. The only analog I have is the M3 Vert I traded in on the FR-S. In 2008 I bought a 2006 M# vert with 11,000 miles on the clock for $43k and then 4 years later I gave it up for $15k with 97,000 miles. The dealer actually sold it for $17k but lets use the $15k number because it's a worst case scenario.

Using my experience as a baseline, the depreciation on the CPO Cayman S over 4 years and 86,000 miles would be about 66% or $34.8k. At the end of four years the Cayman S would be worth about $18k

The FR-S over 4 years and 86,000 the FR-S should depreciate about %72 or $18.3k. So, after 4 years the FR-S is worth $7k. Add the mods to the total and it adds another $15k bringing the four year cost to $33.3k

Four year cost of the CPO Caymen S is $34.8k
Four year cost of the FR-S with Mods is $33.3k

If I sell the FR-S you're right; I would have thrown away $11k.

What's really interesting to me about the exercise is that you're actually ahead as long as you hold on to the car. My personal belief is that maintaining the Cayman will cost a small fortune (I wish someone who had one could chime in here). I'm not sure the difference would exceed $11k...

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Here's something to consider: Which car do you think will cost you more over 5 years of ownership, including reselling the car. A new FRS with $15k in mods or a 3-4 year old CPO Cayman S?

The answer is the FRS. You'll take a big hit on buying a new car, and then get little return, if any, for all the money dumped into modifications.

Of course not everything is about money. Some people like tuning for the sake of tuning.

Over 2 years I've lost £14'300 on a stock Cayman 2.9 & £10'900 on a stock BRZ (add about 2000 to both for an A1 condition private sale). £3'400 doesn't buy in terms of mods & doubt that you'll get much back from your money you put into the mods. Of course there's the problem of finding the extra £15'000 for the Cayman in the first place.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

£3'400 doesn't buy in terms of mods & doubt that you'll get much back from your money you put into the mods.

Agreed. Mods are generally worthless when it comes to a car's resale value at best. And at worst they actually take away it's value.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Agreed. Mods are generally worthless when it comes to a car's resale value at best. And at worst they actually take away it's value.

Mods have intrinsic value, that can be sold used to recoup some of the expenditure. I would say between 30-50% of the outlay..

As long as you don't sell the stock parts and can return the car to its original state, actually having the mods INCREASES the value of a less expensive modded car because you can turn around and sell those mods to someone else.

IOW, you can't just throw out the value of those parts assuming that anyone who sells the car will include the parts with the car even when it can DECREASE the value of the car as opposed to removing the mods and selling it as close to stock.

That's the main difference between tuning a car and paying someone else to tune it.

As a tuner, we can relatively easily and inexpensively remove the mods and sell them, increasing any resale value by being able to recoup some of the cost of the mods.

The only way it makes sense to sell stock parts like wheels, etc... is if you can't afford the mods without selling them, in which case, you wouldn't be able to afford a higher end car like a cayman s to begin with...

The other best thing about a car that is modded versus a more expensive starting car is that there is no immediate need for the ability to pay for mods like there is with a more expensive car...

You can keep the car and save up for a year to buy a supercharger or turbo kit... or save up for 3-6 months to buy coil overs...

With a more expensive car, you have to be able to afford the greater expense RIGHT NOW...

I don't get why a tuner would want to sell their car anyways...the point of making your own car, is to make your own car...

Jaden