Best CARB legal SC kit? Jackson? Oem reliable block rebuild? Cayman killer?

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

I wouldn't go as far to say the Cayman is more reliable. Not even close. It depends what year too. I've heard of Cayman engines blowing up, spinning rods and messing up their sleeves and faulty loose piston rings (from only mild track driving and even on the street), 1000x more than a BRZ/FRS has lol.

The only Cayman S you can buy for around $30-40k would be an old, high mileage, '06-'08 model...which are the most problematic and very prone to major engine failures at the track due to oil starvation (lack of oil pump power and lateral load makes the oil stuck in the heads) and spun rods, di and rear/front seal problems, engine sucking up and burning oil from intake, and so on.

'09-'13 have resolved most of these issues, but these will run at least $45k to $60k used. The early '09 still had problems iirc.

'14...forget about it lol. Pretty much the same price as a 911.

Yes, I heard some oil starvation issues too but I am not sure if those are pretty common, on internet people tend to make the things big deal too

Also, I am not sure where you find those prices for used Cayman S but quick search on Autotrader gave me these


http://goo.gl/vgNqVY



http://goo.gl/GnQ5g3

[Yui-Chan]

I used the official Porsche website's locator, set to no particular zipcode, and got the prices for the whole country.

Yes, the ones on local CL are much cheaper though.

[Yui-Chan]

So...since the S clearly destroys a JR/SC 86 by a huge margin, what about the base non-S Cayman? haha.

The base Caymans can be had for much much cheaper...older models in the low $20k range (pretty much the same price as a used low mileage 86) and the 1.5gen can be had in the $30k range.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

So...since the S clearly destroys a JR/SC 86 by a huge margin, what about the base non-S Cayman? haha.

The base Caymans can be had for much much cheaper...older models in the low $20k range (pretty much the same price as a used low mileage 86) and the 1.5gen can be had in the $30k range.

I have to say though, that track was the only place I've seen the Cayman has the advantage.. since it's a really long straightaway I have no problem passing Caymans and/or 911s (even some GT3s) at the other tracks where a lightweight car can shine

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

I wouldn't go as far to say the Cayman is more reliable. Not even close. It depends what year too. I've heard of Cayman engines blowing up, spinning rods and messing up their sleeves and faulty loose piston rings (from only mild track driving and even on the street), 1000x more than a BRZ/FRS has lol.

The only Cayman S you can buy for around $30-40k would be an old, high mileage, '06-'08 model...which are the most problematic and very prone to major engine failures at the track due to oil starvation (lack of oil pump power and lateral load makes the oil stuck in the heads) and spun rods, di and rear/front seal problems, engine sucking up and burning oil from intake, and so on.

'09-'13 have resolved most of these issues, but these will run at least $45k to $60k used. The early '09 still had problems iirc.

'14...forget about it lol. Those are $65-75k+ used.

Stories of Porsche engine failures are GREATLY exaggerated by the Internet.

[Yui-Chan]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

Cayman S $35-$50K is barely > JR BRZ (280whp) $42K w/mods is barely > NA BRZ (200whp) $34K w/mods

That's a good way to look at it when comparing a stock Cayman to a modified SC'ed 86...the total cost.

Imo, the bare minimum and essentials (brakes, susp, power, tires) needed to make a JR 86 comparable (or at least a tad closer lol) to a Cayman would be just an extra $12k ....$20k for a used 86 and an additional $12k for mods = $32k ...which is far from your $42k estimate.

So I think it would be more fair to compare, or shop, for a Cayman around that $32k price... if you wanted to get, or were considering getting, a Cayman instead of a JR 86.


JR86 essential and cheapest mods to go up against a Cayman:
JRSC (Cayman power) = $5k
Oil cooler = $700
Wheels & tires (Cayman grip) = RPF1 & RS3 or ZII = $1.8k
AP Racing Sprint (closer to Cayman brakes) = $2k
Coilovers (closer to Cayman suspension) = $2.5k
Total = $12k

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That's a good way to look at it when comparing a stock Cayman to a modified SC'ed 86...the total cost.

Imo, the bare minimum and essentials (brakes, susp, power, tires) needed to make a JR 86 comparable (or at least a tad closer lol) to a Cayman would be just an extra $12k ....$20k for a used 86 and an additional $12k for mods = $32k ...which is far from your $42k estimate.

So I think it would be more fair to compare, or shop, for a Cayman around that $32k price... if you wanted to get, or were considering getting, a Cayman instead of a JR 86.


JR86 essential and cheapest mods to go up against a Cayman:
JRSC (Cayman power) = $5k
Oil cooler = $700
Wheels & tires (Cayman grip) = RPF1 & RS3 or ZII = $1.8k
AP Racing Sprint (closer to Cayman brakes) = $2k
Coilovers (closer to Cayman suspension) = $2.5k
Total = $12k

That is about what I would suggest to compete against a Cayman S (with one of the available CARB supercharger options out there). Though the one benefit you can do is run FlexFuel/E85 and pick up an additional 30-50 horsepower (over 91 octane) depending on the Supercharger and boost you are running.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That's a good way to look at it when comparing a stock Cayman to a modified SC'ed 86...the total cost.

Imo, the bare minimum and essentials (brakes, susp, power, tires) needed to make a JR 86 comparable (or at least a tad closer lol) to a Cayman would be just an extra $12k ....$20k for a used 86 and an additional $12k for mods = $32k ...which is far from your $42k estimate.

So I think it would be more fair to compare, or shop, for a Cayman around that $32k price... if you wanted to get, or were considering getting, a Cayman instead of a JR 86.


JR86 essential and cheapest mods to go up against a Cayman:
JRSC (Cayman power) = $5k
Oil cooler = $700
Wheels & tires (Cayman grip) = RPF1 & RS3 or ZII = $1.8k
AP Racing Sprint (closer to Cayman brakes) = $2k
Coilovers (closer to Cayman suspension) = $2.5k
Total = $12k

I was adding 12k to a new BRZ. Either way... Just buy a Cayman S and GT3 control arms ($2k) and you'll destroy the BRZ.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That's a good way to look at it when comparing a stock Cayman to a modified SC'ed 86...the total cost.

Imo, the bare minimum and essentials (brakes, susp, power, tires) needed to make a JR 86 comparable (or at least a tad closer lol) to a Cayman would be just an extra $12k ....$20k for a used 86 and an additional $12k for mods = $32k ...which is far from your $42k estimate.

So I think it would be more fair to compare, or shop, for a Cayman around that $32k price... if you wanted to get, or were considering getting, a Cayman instead of a JR 86.


JR86 essential and cheapest mods to go up against a Cayman:
JRSC (Cayman power) = $5k
Oil cooler = $700
Wheels & tires (Cayman grip) = RPF1 & RS3 or ZII = $1.8k
AP Racing Sprint (closer to Cayman brakes) = $2k
Coilovers (closer to Cayman suspension) = $2.5k
Total = $12k

I was actually in your shoes before I purchased my BRZ back in March, I actually knew all the parts that I needed in order to compete with a Cayman S, so I ordered all the parts within the same week of my purchase I installed my Kraftwerks kit when I had about 800 miles on the clock .. since the logic tells me 275-280 whp coupe that weighs about 2700 lbs should be able to keep up with a Cayman S since they have similar power Cayman being heavier (about 300-400 lbs more) but in real life things are a bit different.. NA power and delivery is quite different and parasitic loss in inevitable so I am pretty sure I am not making the power consistently like a Cayman or similar NA engine, even with the best SC option (I mean Rotrex kits in general) which feels like a high revving 6 cylinder engine..

with that said, BRZ even with the FI is still a bargain compared to a new Cayman ( I think to be fair we have to compare apples to the apples)

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I was actually in your shoes before I purchased my BRZ back in March, I actually knew all the parts that I needed in order to compete with a Cayman S, so I ordered all the parts within the same week of my purchase I installed my Kraftwerks kit when I had about 800 miles on the clock .. since the logic tells me 275-280 whp coupe that weighs about 2700 lbs should be able to keep up with a Cayman S since they have similar power Cayman being heavier (about 300-400 lbs more) but in real life things are a bit different.. NA power and delivery is quite different and parasitic loss in inevitable so I am pretty sure I am not making the power consistently like a Cayman or similar NA engine, even with the best SC option (I mean Rotrex kits in general) which feels like a high revving 6 cylinder engine..

with that said, BRZ even with the FI is still a bargain compared to a new Cayman ( I think to be fair we have to compare apples to the apples)

Agree with all.

We had a 2012 stage 2+++ WRX hatch that was seriously fast and the BRZ. We were going to sell the BRZ when I bought the Cayman but kept the BRZ because we like it so much and sold the WRX instead. They both make me smile and they're both fun and different to drive.

[juliog]

You'd need to spend way more than $2.5k in suspension parts to get close to a Cayman S in terms of performance, not to mention ride quality..

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by juliog

You'd need to spend way more than $2.5k in suspension parts to get close to a Cayman S in terms of performance, not to mention ride quality..

This is true and you'll never touch it in ride quality if the Cayman has PASM.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

Stories of Porsche engine failures are GREATLY exaggerated by the Internet.

I beg to differ... far more of them are handled quietly and without internet fuss than you think.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yui-Chan

That's a good way to look at it when comparing a stock Cayman to a modified SC'ed 86...the total cost.

Imo, the bare minimum and essentials (brakes, susp, power, tires) needed to make a JR 86 comparable (or at least a tad closer lol) to a Cayman would be just an extra $12k ....$20k for a used 86 and an additional $12k for mods = $32k ...which is far from your $42k estimate.

So I think it would be more fair to compare, or shop, for a Cayman around that $32k price... if you wanted to get, or were considering getting, a Cayman instead of a JR 86.


JR86 essential and cheapest mods to go up against a Cayman:
JRSC (Cayman power) = $5k
Oil cooler = $700
Wheels & tires (Cayman grip) = RPF1 & RS3 or ZII = $1.8k
AP Racing Sprint (closer to Cayman brakes) = $2k
Coilovers (closer to Cayman suspension) = $2.5k
Total = $12k

I think what you really need is a demonstration of what the car is actually capable of.

Come to the next 86CUP event, and I'll personally cover your entry fee. It's August 20th at Auto Club Speedway.