FR-S vs Cayman

[uspspro]

Originally Posted by KeepGuessing

.....

IMHO, you are dead-on about almost everything there. Bottom line is the Evora is way overpriced, the Cayman is a better value.

I was really just defending the 2GR, not Lotus. If Lotus did some actual work to it, it would have been great since it would have shown the potential of the 2GR. It's not only the numbers either, as the feel and responsiveness are excellent as well. It's really a shame it hasn't been applied properly (except in swaps).

The IS350 would have been a great place to apply the 2GR well (since it is supposed to be a sports sedan) but they gave it a horrible slushbox and a lousy intake (as evident by hp gains made from intake kits).

One thing I do disagree with you on is the comparison of the Honda 1.5L with buckets of money thrown at it vs the dune buggy 2GR. That dune buggy competes in crazy enduro races across hundreds of kilometers of Australian dessert probably at full boost most of the time. Not sure what the Honda does, but probably not something that proves it's toughness quite so well.

[KeepGuessing]

Well the dune buggy lasting in crazy enduro races is principally a result of throwing big bucks at it...But that wasn't really a "key" point in the discussion...But to continue with the friendly banter. If that baja 2GR engine has...even 25% of it's internal parts custom designed/produced FOR that application then I have no doubt in it's ability to run the entire length of some crazy race...However proportionally a 500HP 1.5 is under much more stress than a 3.5L 800hp.. We're talking 333.333HP per liter, compared to 220HP per..So if the Honda 1.5's power production was in the neighborhood of 340HP I wouldn't have any doubt in it's ability to handle an endurance stressful race..

But that's enough of that friendly banter...Back to FR-S vs Superior vehicle...I like the FRS but come on people.. IF this was a "which do we like money not involved" i think it's clear..However once you factor in your salary is the only time variation rears its head, however then it becomes car A vs any car, which ends in an argument.

[nibor33]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

For me, the Cayman is just too fast to be fun and it actually somewhat symbolizes a problem with modern performance oriented cars. They are just too fast. You put your foot to the floor in a Cayman and things get very illegal very quickly. It's very hard to enjoy that kind of power band in day to day driving.

Personally I can't justify a by-the-numbers-sports-car-on-paper. I don't live at the track. I just want something that is fun to drive everyday with a power band I actually get to use in the real world instead of bragging about online.

Talking about the real world - cars like the Cayman or only really exciting during the 1 or 2 seconds of highway on ramps, and if you feel like risking your license around some twisty roads by doing double to triple the speed limit.

If I knew you I'd buy you a beer. I may be sounding like a broken record (if you saw my other posts), but I had a Cayman (2010 2.9L, 6 speed with LSD) following my Miata (2007 MX-5). The Miata is more fun to drive on a daily basis. Hands down. Anybody who thinks different has their image or ego in the P-car.

Now, FWIW, my Cayman had a leather dash and a factory short shift kit. The ****pit (why is that considered a bad word??) is an absolutely beautiful place to be. Sitting in it made me happy. The sights, smells, sounds, shifts... *drool*. It's a wonderful chassis, great turn in, telepathic handling. I never experienced oversteer problems like someone previously posted, even at the track. I don't have a single complaint about the chassis, from comfort (ok I had the magnetic shocks) to squeaks or rattles, to handling.

To be honest, I'm a Porsche fanboy. I currently have a 1989 911 3.2. And I've considered building a 550 or 356 replica. The Cayman to me was what the 911 should have evolved into, and I don't understand why they haven't made it all it could be (i.e. RS / GT). It could beat the 911 in every category if given equal factory tuning / attention, but marketing prevents that.

However, I couldn't agree with 86fanatic more. Which is why I'm now "downgrading" to a BRZ for a daily driver, what I'm hoping is a 2+2 Miata. (Well, in truth I'm hoping it's even better).

To the OP and others cross shopping, I'd put forward the following: do you want a beautiful, luxurious (with the right options) and perfectly balanced car, that is scary fast at 9/10ths, or a car that is slightly less-so of all of the above?

[Turbowned]

I think I'd like a Cayman S but the base car just didn't do it for me enough to want it over a BRZ, which would also likely be less expensive overall cost of ownership, even with my discount from working at a Porsche dealer. The base car's interior did not impress me with it's plastic shift knob, door pulls and stereo/hvac surround (no better/arguably worse than the BRZ) and I swear Porsche carpets just don't stay looking good for long - it must depend on who owns the car and how well it's taken care of. I love Porsche too, don't get me wrong; I'd kill for the right 993 to come along! If only you could finance 20+yr-old Porsches...

[nibor33]

The interior is more dependent on options than "S" vs. Base. As I said, I had the full leather interior. That meant the dash and everything. Now, paying for a $3K option to make a $50K car feel upscale is something I think only Porsche can pull off.

Also, in 2010 (I believe) the base went to a 2.9L from a 2.7L. Maybe it was 2009. It was miles ahead of the 2.5L in the original Boxster, and a noticeable improvement from the 2.7L.

[preetham]

I have a 2011 Boxster Spyder and am considering getting the FR_S for track duty. I test drove the Cayman S and they are great cars.
I personally would not get the base Cayman as it feels underpowered, especially given there is an S option out there. I am sure with the weight reductions, the FR-S "might" feel more nimble.
The S is a great car for daily driving, dont see it being beat by the FR-S or any other car (bar the Spyder or R) under 100K, but will need suspension tuning to track.
The Spyder is the best car i have driven to date and each time i track the car, the idea of replacing it with the FR-S seems more unlikely. However, i do not want to track the Spyder forever, it is one of the special cars that i will keep for those special drives and do not see as a serious track car(rollcage and hardtop aspects)..atleast that is what i think.
Hence, as soon as the FR_S comes (i am #2 in line) out i will be comparing it to the Spyder and if the handeling is anywhere close and there will be a potential aftermarket SC option, i will get one.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by nibor33

The interior is more dependent on options than "S" vs. Base. As I said, I had the full leather interior. That meant the dash and everything. Now, paying for a $3K option to make a $50K car feel upscale is something I think only Porsche can pull off.

Also, in 2010 (I believe) the base went to a 2.9L from a 2.7L. Maybe it was 2009. It was miles ahead of the 2.5L in the original Boxster, and a noticeable improvement from the 2.7L.

It's going back to a 2.7, but I'm guessing they tweaked some stuff and made it breathe better since it will make more power than the 2.9.

[axn]

Originally Posted by KeepGuessing

And I'm sure it's awesome in a Mr2 Spyder, or Fiero, or MR-S..or any number of lightweight nimble cars that can host the engine.

But not in a 70-80,000 dollar "sports car"..

at 60,000 I can get a car with a brand new power/sport/race oriented 4.0L V8 with a 8400rpm redline and great powerband in a host of configurations manual/smg etc with plenty of space for upgrade-ability....yet at 75,000 I get a Camry motor that needs to be upgraded to feel "right"

As someone who recently moved from the said 4.0L V8 8400 RPM redline car and got an Evora. I think I can add some perspective here.

The M3 certainly has power; but is not even close to "race oriented" and handling with the Evora. There is more to a true sports car than a big engine. The M3 has an amazing engine, but shitty brakes; a queasy dealer network that is more in tune with the X6 and 328i buyers, expensive parts and consumables, eats tires and brakes super fast because it so freakin heavy and drives more like a GT car (a really good one) than a pure sports car.

It is sold by a company that plays "vroom vroom" sounds from the stereo. The M cars are moving in the absolute wrong direction. It is exactly the problem that that BRZ intends to address. You have to drive the two to really tell what is special about the Evora. So much more fun.

Speaking of options in the BMW, after a while you just get tired of them when you realize you are just arguing with a computer. I admit, I do miss the M3 motor - but then even BMW is abandoning the V8 and moving to more standard options.

[DarkSunrise]

Direct comparison (86 wins):

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...5&d=1336984601

[switchlanez]

^Thanks for sharing that. Just one thing I didn't understand...

"There is just one problem: the (optional) aggressive rear spoiler that does so much to upset the integrity of the rear end styling, lowers the drag co-efficient from 0.29 to 0.27 without impacting on downforce or reducing the 225km/h top speed. Efficiency or style? In this case we'd argue for style."

Did the writer just say it botches the rear end styling, then show us numbers that prove it's functional, then say it's there for style? I don't get it.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

^Thanks for sharing that. Just one thing I didn't understand...

"There is just one problem: the (optional) aggressive rear spoiler that does so much to upset the integrity of the rear end styling, lowers the drag co-efficient from 0.29 to 0.27 without impacting on downforce or reducing the 225km/h top speed. Efficiency or style? In this case we'd argue for style."

Did the writer just say it botches the rear end styling, then show us numbers that prove it's functional, then say it's there for style? I don't get it.

I think he's saying the rear spoiler ruins the styling, but is functional. If he was choosing between the two, he would pick style (i.e., he would not get the spoiler).

[Boxer-86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

dont bring attention to miatas. its probably the last cheap car that idiots dont really get ahold of them and the prices dont randomly inflate like corollas or civics

Apparently you haven't seen clubroadster.net..

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer-86

Apparently you haven't seen clubroadster.net..

haha forgot about those guys. someone has to keep raceland suspensions from going bankrupt

[Purity999]

I found this video the other day and thought I would share, interesting! GT86 v 370z v Cayman S

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&feature=g-user-u"]Toyota GT86 / Scion FR-S v Nissan 370Z v Used Porsche Cayman S - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]