Twin vs VW 2015 GTI

[thill]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Wrong thread

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Originally Posted by stevo585

This. But its still FWD. I can imagine severe traction and maybe torque steer problems. Nevertheless

It has a torque vectoring front diff of sorts. Sure, it's FWD, but in 90% of driving all cars only need to go straight anyway. I can't wait to get in a stage 1 for the first time, no doubt 381tq will put you in the back of your seat! And for so cheap!

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

Lol u mad bros?

Lets be honest, spending the same amount for a VW when you could get a Mercedes or BMW? The quality in the product is on different levels completely, yea not as much power sure you could say it has expensive maintenance but its still a much better car in many different criteria not just luxury.

While you might think its all about the badge but there is a reason the badge is worth more, get off the keyboard and go test drive some cars folks

When I had my MkV Golf GTI, my friends had Merc W203 C230, BMW E92 328, Audi B6 A4, Porsche 986 Boxster, and believe me what you think of as "better quality" is actually just perceived quality. The real build quality (other than the nice German steel itself) is laughable at best when you actually own one daily. I actually find a Mk2 Golf 25 yrs ago to have much better build quality and workmanship than all those cars I mentioned. Times changed and lots of OEM Made in China parts these days.

With the BRZ at least I don't get creaks and rattles with temperature changes, and I even find the interior plastic quality to be much better than my GTI (you would only notice that when you start removing the trims and examine the plastic thickness and finish). Soft touch is only nice when they are new, not when they start to go gooey and peel after 4 years.

Oh and did I mention all those cracked plastic bits inside the engine bay of German cars after only a few years? One that services these cars will never ever have to worry about not having a job.

Actually forget everything I wrote on this post:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpQIi7gI_U"]BMW N47 Timing Chain Failure PROBLEM - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iizFqQ0dIK8"]BMW Rusty Seat Frames Rusting Due To A Problem With Production BMW F30 And 1 Series - YouTube[/ame]

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by krayzie

When I had my MkV Golf GTI, my friends had Merc W203 C230, BMW E92 328, Audi B6 A4, Porsche 986 Boxster, and believe me what you think of as "better quality" is actually just perceived quality. The real build quality (other than the nice German steel itself) is laughable at best when you actually own one daily. I actually find a Mk2 Golf 25 yrs ago to have much better build quality and workmanship than all those cars I mentioned. Times changed and lots of OEM Made in China parts these days.

With the BRZ at least I don't get creaks and rattles with temperature changes, and I even find the interior plastic quality to be much better than my GTI (you would only notice that when you start removing the trims and examine the plastic thickness and finish). Soft touch is only nice when they are new, not when they start to go gooey and peel after 4 years.

Oh and did I mention all those cracked plastic bits inside the engine bay of German cars after only a few years? One that services these cars will never ever have to worry about not having a job.

Actually forget everything I wrote on this post:

See these are good points that I can get behind to discuss, not just some fanboys getting upset that a luxury car just so happens to be better than their equally priced VW. I agree with the service issues etc (yes its expensive and yes things occur like those issues) but I promise you every manufacturer has these issues lets not start with those behind the VW...

In terms of interior quality, yes they might be made in china but its the same argument I'm sure the products made out of the Apple factory compared to where they make ebay parts has some vast differences, but I digress.

I still have to disagree with the quality of the interior at the very least, I drove a 2008 C350 for about 4-5 years personally. Not only this but I've prob driven every BMW / Mercedes / Lexus / Infiniti / "cool" car etc that has come out since 2010 caveat- crazy specific super cars though I drove the SLS This might sound like I'm tooting my own horn but actualy my dad/I fun pass time is going to the dealership to drive fun cars. haha

Once again digressing, while I will give that interiors of most cars are becoming much much better there is a VAST difference between luxos and your avg car. Yes they are catching up but no they are not on the same level. The $ & thought put in ergonomics/design/material/ that are spent are done so for an enjoyable and pleasant time within that space.

Sure I was trolling but now I just got bored with the VW fanboyism that seems to invade this thread.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

I still have to disagree with the quality of the interior at the very least, I drove a 2008 C350 for about 4-5 years personally. Not only this but I've prob driven every BMW / Mercedes / Lexus / Infiniti / "cool" car etc that has come out since 2010 caveat- crazy specific super cars though I drove the SLS This might sound like I'm tooting my own horn but actualy my dad/I fun pass time is going to the dealership to drive fun cars. haha

Interesting that you liked the interior on the 2008 C350. My folks have a 2008 C300 (which I believe shares the same interior) and I thought the interior felt pretty cheap when I drove it. Looks decent, but hard plastics throughout the cabin, including the dashboard material and doors. Rear seats are cramped. The factory navigation is also a mess. Needs a touch screen desperately.

I agree that current luxury brand interiors are a step up from the GTI, but that specific generation of C-Class MB's is not the best example. IMO the autobahn (leather) MK6 GTI interior was on par with or nicer than the 2008 C300.

I guess even opinions on interiors can be subjective

[Slipstream]

Originally Posted by BlueDubbinTDI

It has a torque vectoring front diff of sorts. Sure, it's FWD, but in 90% of driving all cars only need to go straight anyway. I can't wait to get in a stage 1 for the first time, no doubt 381tq will put you in the back of your seat! And for so cheap!

The performance package should help. I realize that a mechanical LSD isn't a magic bullet for FWD torque-steer but a lot of the European reviews suggest it is one of the best systems yet for managing a lot of power through the front wheels (save the Revoknuckle system in the previous Focus RS).

Originally Posted by calmtigers

See these are good points that I can get behind to discuss, not just some fanboys getting upset that a luxury car just so happens to be better than their equally priced VW. I agree with the service issues etc (yes its expensive and yes things occur like those issues) but I promise you every manufacturer has these issues lets not start with those behind the VW...

In terms of interior quality, yes they might be made in china but its the same argument I'm sure the products made out of the Apple factory compared to where they make ebay parts has some vast differences, but I digress.

I still have to disagree with the quality of the interior at the very least, I drove a 2008 C350 for about 4-5 years personally. Not only this but I've prob driven every BMW / Mercedes / Lexus / Infiniti / "cool" car etc that has come out since 2010 caveat- crazy specific super cars though I drove the SLS This might sound like I'm tooting my own horn but actualy my dad/I fun pass time is going to the dealership to drive fun cars. haha

Once again digressing, while I will give that interiors of most cars are becoming much much better there is a VAST difference between luxos and your avg car. Yes they are catching up but no they are not on the same level. The $ & thought put in ergonomics/design/material/ that are spent are done so for an enjoyable and pleasant time within that space.

Sure I was trolling but now I just got bored with the VW fanboyism that seems to invade this thread.

I think you're using the "fanboy" term a bit liberally (and somewhat ironically, given your MB fixation). Voicing positive things about the car being discussed in the thread title does not automatically make someone a fanboy. Consider slowing down and actually reading what people are trying to tell you.

Nobody is claiming VWs are better than Mercedes as a blanket rule. All that is being suggested is that entry level Mercedes or BMWs are NOT the same level of build quality as the luxury-focused models, and aren't much better (if any) than similarly-priced German competition (ie. VW). As krayzie said, it's a perceived quality jump because of the badge on the hood and the reputation it carries, not ACTUAL build quality differences. There is a reason The S65 AMG costs so much more than a CLA250 beyond just extra sheetmetal and a bigger engine.

The "VW fanboys" aren't trying to insult your C350... Only that the C230 wasn't as fancy as you think it was. Relax.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Interesting that you liked the interior on the 2008 C350. My folks have a 2008 C300 (which I believe shares the same interior) and I thought the interior felt pretty cheap when I drove it. Looks decent, but hard plastics throughout the cabin, including the dashboard material and doors. Rear seats are cramped. The factory navigation is also a mess. Needs a touch screen desperately.

I agree that current luxury brand interiors are a step up from the GTI, but that specific generation of C-Class MB's is not the best example. IMO the autobahn (leather) MK6 GTI interior was on par with or nicer than the 2008 C300.

I guess even opinions on interiors can be subjective

I didn't post that....

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I didn't post that....

Haha what the heck? I think the quote system screwed up. I will fix my post manually.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I agree that current luxury brand interiors are a step up from the GTI,

I guess even opinions on interiors can be subjective

This is all I'm trying to get across but apparently some folks here got a stick up their ass when VW wasn't better than Luxo brands.

I only give MB as an example because I have spent a decent amount of time in a wide variety of their cars.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

This is all I'm trying to get across but apparently some folks here got a stick up their ass when VW wasn't better than Luxo brands.

I only give MB as an example because I have spent a decent amount of time in a wide variety of their cars.

Yeah GTI owners tend to be sensitive when it comes to interior comparisons Gotta love dat superior interior.

I personally like the MK6 GTI interior, but it's pretty sad when it squeaks and rattles more than my FR-S. Most of it comes from the lack of chassis rigidity, causing the door seals to rub against the body.

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah GTI owners tend to be sensitive when it comes to interior comparisons Gotta love dat superior interior.

I personally like the MK6 GTI interior, but it's pretty sad when it squeaks and rattles more than my FR-S. Most of it comes from the lack of chassis rigidity, causing the door seals to rub against the body.

No car will rattle/sound worse than my FR-S interior..ever

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by BlueDubbinTDI

No car will rattle/sound worse than my FR-S interior..ever

Haha you should hear my GTI when I go up parking structures. Sounds like a creaky old pirate ship, yarr! Need to buy some more UHMW tape.

[Slipstream]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

This is all I'm trying to get across but apparently some folks here got a stick up their ass when VW wasn't better than Luxo brands.

I only give MB as an example because I have spent a decent amount of time in a wide variety of their cars.

Kind of like some folks "got (sic) a stick up their ass" when someone suggests that a roundel or three-point star on the hood doesn't automatically mean it's better. That seems like what you tried to get across with this:

Lets be honest, spending the same amount for a VW when you could get a Mercedes or BMW? The quality in the product is on different levels completely, yea not as much power sure you could say it has expensive maintenance but its still a much better car in many different criteria not just luxury.

While you might think its all about the badge but there is a reason the badge is worth more, get off the keyboard and go test drive some cars folks

I did new/used inventory management for every mainstream make/model dealership in a four state area prior to my current job. I sat in and drove everything from Cobalts to S2000s to Maybach Pullmans to Cayenne Turbos (and everything in-between), five days a week for 5+ years. I'm failiar with what a luxury car is/is not. The reason the badge is "worth more" on a stripped out CLA250 is because Mercedes' marketing department tells you so.

Are the majority of BMW's or Mercedes-Benz's lineup better quality than the majority of Volkswagen or Subaru or Toyota's offerings? Of course. But I sat in some fairly unimpressive, brand-new 3-series and C-Class cars that weren't any "nicer" (based on whatever measurable you're using to determine "nice") than the brand new, loaded-up Volkswagens or Toyotas one lot over.

If anyone seems "mad, bro," it's you.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BlueDubbinTDI

No car will rattle/sound worse than my FR-S interior..ever

1970 Duster! Metal door pans INSIDE, metal dash, metal EVRYTHING!
Lost half my hearing just from closing the doors!