Cosworth FA20 Stage 1 Power Package

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Intake manifold looks like a typo. I think it's a ceramic coated header that they were discussing. It simply doesn't make sense as working on the intake manifold actually requires quite a bit of funding to do.

I suspect the actual power ratings are closer to 220HP and not 230HP. I mean our baseline dyno was a 177HP for our BRZ on a dynapack that translates power to the flywheel, not at the wheel. Getting a 197HP value on the dyno seems to be extremely lucky. Same dyno will laydown 240HP numbers for my S2000 so I know it's rather consistent with the range of values.

Interesting theory on the IM, but will be a bit disappointing if true. Also good info on your findings from the dyno.

The only reason I ask is I've been seeing more dyno charts of full bolt-ons FA20's hitting 190-200 whp on dynojets, so I figured this was the new norm. I know PTuning just got 200 whp with their rotational-firing, 4-1 EL header + 3" exhaust on their dyno dynamics, which they claim reads low.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Interesting theory on the IM, but will be a bit disappointing if true. Also good info on your findings from the dyno.

The only reason I ask is I've been seeing more dyno charts of full bolt-ons FA20's hitting 190-200 whp on dynojets, so I figured this was the new norm. I know PTuning just got 200 whp with their rotational-firing, 4-1 EL header + 3" exhaust on their dyno dynamics, which they claim reads low.

I have my doubts on 190-200whp but I believe it's possible. Just a header + 3" exhaust doesn't quite make sense but I know PTuning has hundreds of dynos to prove that. Their dyno may read a certain way, but again, numbers are subjective. It's all about the delta/differential/percentage gain that's more important here.

On top of that, CA 91 gas has 10% ethanol in it. In other words, very bad for power. If you were to run 100 octane, you'll see a consistent 3-6HP gain across the board on a completely stock BRZ/FRS. That goes to show that the engine is not running optimally with 91 octane (even with no ethanol).

Either way, I'm open to working with someone willing to work with a specific NA setup and proving that data on multiple dynos.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG David

I have my doubts on 190-200whp but I believe it's possible. Just a header + 3" exhaust doesn't quite make sense but I know PTuning has hundreds of dynos to prove that. Their dyno may read a certain way, but again, numbers are subjective. It's all about the delta/differential/percentage gain that's more important here.

On top of that, CA 91 gas has 10% ethanol in it. In other words, very bad for power. If you were to run 100 octane, you'll see a consistent 3-6HP gain across the board on a completely stock BRZ/FRS. That goes to show that the engine is not running optimally with 91 octane (even with no ethanol).

Either way, I'm open to working with someone willing to work with a specific NA setup and proving that data on multiple dynos.

Yeah agree on delta being the most important thing. I think PTuning mentioned their baseline was in the mid 160's. That seems on par with some of the other stock Twins I've seen them dyno.

BTW I wish I could work with CSG to modify my car. Love your passion for this car and the S2000, and your track data to back it up. I'm just on the wrong coast. My wife is from Orange County though, so maybe in a few years.

[s2d4]

Ethanol is bad for power?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Ethanol is bad for power?

Low levels of ethanol is bad. 75% (E85 quality varies) to 100% ethanol is good.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Low levels of ethanol is bad. 75% (E85 quality varies) to 100% ethanol is good.

Why is that?

[tahdizzle]

gotta define power. The potential energy of Ethanol is less than Gasoline.
So yes.... Ethanol is bad for power.

But for what purposes members of this forum use ethanol, Its good for timing. Thus good for power.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Why is that?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...-damage-engine

The positive properties of E85 is it runs cool so you can actively cool your engine but also run a ton of timing. With E10, that's fairly different.

[Insurme1]

Originally Posted by abraxis

If you were, you would know that's not true.

Dude, please don't embarrass your ass and call me out on my knowledge of F1. Do your homework on Cosworth and you will learn their involvement with F1 engines, ECU's...etc is an impressive resume prior to 2014.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Insurme1

Dude, please don't embarrass your ass and call me out on my knowledge of F1. Do your homework on Cosworth and you will learn their involvement with F1 engines, ECU's...etc is an impressive resume prior to 2014.

Ok Mr. F1 expert.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2009/6/9494.html

"Legendary engine builders Cosworth will return to Formula One racing next season after a three-year absence, having agreed three-year supply deals with 2010 newcomers Campos Grand Prix, Manor Grand Prix and Team US. Their last appearance was with Williams and Toro Rosso at the 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix, which marked the end of a 38-year run of F1 involvement."

[Guillaume]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Ok Mr. F1 expert.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2009/6/9494.html

"Legendary engine builders Cosworth will return to Formula One racing next season after a three-year absence, having agreed three-year supply deals with 2010 newcomers Campos Grand Prix, Manor Grand Prix and Team US. Their last appearance was with Williams and Toro Rosso at the 2006 Brazilian Grand Prix, which marked the end of a 38-year run of F1 involvement."

Holy crap how can one be this poorly informed in the Internet era.
Cosworth was involved in F1 until last year, powering Marussia.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth"]Cosworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Holy crap how can one be this poorly informed in the Internet era.
Cosworth was involved in F1 until last year, powering Marussia.

Cosworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meh, he just argues for the sake of it, no need for correct info.

[-Tom-]

I was at the launch event they held. Wicked tour of the premises (most of it anyway) and some cool features here and there. This whole power packages thing was the most disappointing thing I've ever come across. From buying their parts in the past I was expecting cams/valves&springs/inlets etc. Not a load of crud I can get elsewhere for much cheaper.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Guillaume

Holy crap how can one be this poorly informed in the Internet era.
Cosworth was involved in F1 until last year, powering Marussia.

Cosworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy crap, maybe you should ask yourself that question. How can someone post a reply and not even read my link or their own? Read your own link. Wikipedia over Formula One's own site as a primary source? Lol.

I don't feel the need to self proclaim myself an expert like some of the internet geniuses here, I just know the facts having watched years of F1 without Cosworth participation. Simple historical facts.

"In 2007, however, the company was left without a partner when Williams chose to switch to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_F1"]Toyota Racing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] power, and Scuderia Toro Rosso made the switch to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari"]Scuderia Ferrari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] engines (as used in 2006 by their mother team [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Racing"]Red Bull Racing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]). In Max Mosley's letter following the withdrawal of Honda from Formula One in December 2008, it was announced that Cosworth had won the tender to provide a standard engine to any interested participants. The new engine would become the standard design and manufacturers could opt to use whole units, construct their own from designs provided by Cosworth, or produce their own engine with the caveat that it be limited to the same power as the new "standard" engine.
In 2010 Cosworth returned as the engine supplier for [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WilliamsF1"]Williams Grand Prix Engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and three new teams; [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispania_Racing"]HRT Formula 1 Team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_F1_Racing"]Team Lotus (2010–11) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Racing"]Virgin Racing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]."

Originally Posted by s2d4

Meh, he just argues for the sake of it, no need for correct info.

Obviously, you're the expert on correct info as usual on the wrong side of facts.