BRZ vs. my current cars - MR2 and 240Z

[Turbowned]

Hey guys,

As one who has owned several old sports cars in the past decade, I have come to a single conclusion: I love driving them, but I hate working on them all the time! When the announcement was made that Toyota and Subaru would be producing this car, my ears perked up! I've since placed a deposit on a Galaxy Blue BRZ Limited 6MT (always wanted a dark blue car, haven't gotten one yet), but I wonder if it's worth losing at least one of my two current sports cars: a 1973 Datsun 240Z and a 1987 Toyota MR2 hardtop.

I have owned the Datsun since Aug. 2007 and sadly I've only gotten about 3 good months of driving out of it. I took it off the road early on and plucked the motor from it, with plans to swap in an L28ET 2.8L turbo inline six from a newer Datsun 280ZX turbo. I figured with a decent turbo and a good tune I could make about 400hp on stock internals. What I didn't figure was that I would need to upgrade the transmission, driveshaft, differential, axles, clutch/flywheel, and a slew of other drivetrain components in order to make the magic happen, not to mention brake, suspension, and chassis upgrades in order for the rest of the car to keep up with the power. Nothing in the car is rated to 400hp! So as it sits, I have the rolling chassis, an L28ET engine, Z32 transmission, Z32 diff and axles, and am probably about $3k away from having the whole mess running. Here's what it looked like in its prime:


I bought the MR2 in Nov. 2007 when I realized that my 240Z wouldn't make it through one New England winter without rusting into oblivion. That and it didn't have heat. Well, turns out the MR2 didn't have heat either, but I made it through the winter with it. Since buying it I've put three engines in it. Yes, three. The first one blew at about 200k, then I put two bad engines in it, and then finally found it's rightful engine: a 1997 4A-GE 20v 1.6L "blacktop" from the AE111 Corolla Levin in Japan. In addition to the feisty new 165hp powerplant, I've lightened the car to about 2250lbs, upgraded the suspension (coilovers, poly bushings, thicker sway bars), brakes (Wilwood 4-piston front brakes, MR2 Turbo brake master cylinder), have an LSD ready to go in, and spent a couple thousand in restoration parts to replace all the worn-out parts. Now it needs a new gearbox, plus about $5k in body work and paint. Here's what it looks like:


I guesstimate I have about $10k in the Z and $15k in the MR2 (it really doesn't show, I know), so I'm reluctant to sell either as I know I'll be lucky to get one fifth of that investment back in my pocket. Also, I LOVE both cars!! The MR2 got me into sports cars - I'm on my 6th one now and I don't know if I'll be the same without one. The 240Z is a timeless classic that got me tons of thumbs up and "back in my day" reminiscing. I searched for nearly 3 years before I found the "right one" (even though it didn't turn out to be quite as good as expected).

I really enjoyed driving both, but as I said before, I'm sick and tired of working on them all the time. I'm more than halfway through my 20's and I've only been to about 10 driving events since joining the SCCA in 2007. While it's admirable to keep cars running that are older than the owner, it's also a major PITA at times. However although they may not have keyless access, navigation, bluetooth, or heated seats (or even heat, for that matter!) they offer something that no new car can match: character.

I don't know what to do, guys. Do I spend the same $30k I'd spend on the BRZ on both my current cars over the next 5 years, or do I unload at least one of them (and if so, which one?) to put a bigger down payment on the BRZ, and start a new chapter of sports car enjoyment: one that won't include tinkering all the time? Decisions, decisions...

[carbonBLUE]

two pretty awesome cars... theres a 280zx in pristine condition that parks in front of my moms house all the time

i say get the frs/brz and give those two classic cars a break, drive them on the weekends that way all your cars will develop mileage slower

[Dimman]

Old Z cars are pure sex... I would go with an NA build on the original motor personally.

I would keep the Z as a project and go with the BRZ for daily and event duty. Assuming you only could only keep 2.

[Capt Canuck]

No need to disguise a vanity thread in the Vs sub-forum :-p
I'm kidding, as I think it is a very valid 'versus' question and I nice change from Gen Coupe and Mustang bashing threads :-)

I really really really like 70s Datsun Z cars, but I am not much of a fan of MR2s, so if I was punting one out the door, it would definitely be the Toyota. That said, I would keep both, use your company car options for a DD and sink some coin into the Datsun and Toyota.

If you like both of them - but they are a bit away from being where you ideally want them - I'd much more happily put $10k into the two of them especially as you have already invested financially and personally, than $30k in the BRZ.

Also there is plenty of time to get a BRZ. You will be able to pick up a new or fairly newish used one anytime you want this decade. Maybe better, more powerful iterations as well. Your two older cars aren't getting any younger, as you have already pointed out, so enjoy them while you can!

The more MX5s and S2000s I see around here, the more I think I will keep my BMW as a DD and pick one of them up for weekends away and occasional trackdays, instead of dropping that $20k-$40k on something new/nearly new.

One last thing: I remember you lamenting the lack of joy you got out of driving a Cooper S and an Elise. IMHO, if you didn't get on with those, you won't be getting on much better with the BRZ.

Regardless of your decision, it's great you are in a position to have these choices to make :-)

[chulooz]

If the Z is in worthy condition of a true restore I would keep that, but if its pretty far gone like many of them are Id selling that roller and keep the car that runs.

[yayforaddison]

Although I love all Zs (I'm about to be on my 3rd), it seems the more I read about the MR2, the more I personally fell in love. So sell it and I'll buy it :P

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

I really really really like 70s Datsun Z cars, but I am not much of a fan of MR2s, so if I was punting one out the door, it would definitely be the Toyota. That said, I would keep both, use your company car options for a DD and sink some coin into the Datsun and Toyota.

Yes, I forgot to mention I can use my company to lease an A4 or something less expensive than the S4 as a DD and save my pennies to put towards the others, so at least I don't have to depend on either one for daily driving. The S4 is eating up as much per month as I'd spend on the BRZ, which isn't leaving me any cash left over to work on the project cars.

Originally Posted by chulooz

If the Z is in worthy condition of a true restore I would keep that, but if its pretty far gone like many of them are Id selling that roller and keep the car that runs.

It's mostly there, body-wise. There are a couple small patches of rust in the engine bay and rear inner quarter but nothing visible on the exterior. The quarters, fenders and floors have all been replaced with fresh sheetmetal. The interior is great except for a cracked dashboard, which can be covered with a full dash cover. I definitely want to put a fixed bucket in place of the stock couch seat, though! It needs paint, weatherstripping, and updating of the brakes and suspension to keep up with the new engine. I'd say it still needs about $10k to get it where I want it, not including about $3,000 in wheels/tires which I'd spend on either car regardless; only one will actually get expensive wheels, though.

[blu_]

I like your cars. How hard were the engine swaps on the MR2?

[Kimsey47]

I think I'd let them both go and concentrate on the BRZ. That way you have something new, dependable, fun and with a working heater to boot!

[blu_]

idk you gotta keep the Z imo. its just too much of a classic.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by blu_

I like your cars. How hard were the engine swaps on the MR2?

Thank you! Engine swaps in the MR2 get easier every time you do them. I've done over 10 engine removals, and probably 6 installations. You have to jack the rear end up by 27 inches from the chassis' lowest point for the motor to be slid out from underneath. I can have the engine out in under 4 hours by myself; faster with 1 person helping. There's a couple guys out there who do wiring conversions so for a few hundred bucks I could avoid the wiring headache. If you're swapping in any 4A-G variant, everything pretty much bolts up; there's a little fab work here and there for the cooling system and whatnot, but all in all it's no harder than working on a Civic or other FWD car. The best swap is probably the 3rd generation 3SGTE from the 94-99 MR2 Turbo in Japan. They make 241bhp and 225lb/ft, 85% had LSD transmissions, and will make 300hp very reliably with just bolt-ons. That swap requires welding engine mounts and custom axles, but is worth every penny! If I keep the MR2 I will build a 7A-FE 1.8L block to mate to the 20v head (effectively making a 7A-GE) which I will turbocharge with a GTX3071R and hopefully make around 400hp. It will probably be very challenging to drive, but also really fast!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Those are two classic cars, either would be hard to get rid of. If you can lease a car as a DD why bother with a BRZ for now? It doesn't seem like you really NEED a new car for a DD given your situation. Buy a used BRZ in a few years; the warranty is really what you're paying for. Until that point, sell one of your two classics. I wouldn't know which to keep, but a super clean Z is a super clean Z.

[Bahraini86]

I'm keeping my '73 240z, just need to think where to park the 86 :p

[Bristecom]

Cool. Watching the qualifying for the F1 Grand Prix of Bahrain right now.

But I hear ya. I love my Eclipse but it's just annoying to have to put 2-6k in it every year. So I plan to keep it as a winter/snow car and the FRS will be my daily driver. Your cars are a bit different though since they are RWD and not entirely working so that's a tough call.