Clutch return spring removal

[xxBrun0xx]

Originally Posted by unsurety

I feel just like @xxBrun0xx does.

Haha, nobody else was getting behind this, so I figured I would. Seems like most did the mod and never looked back at this thread to try to help others who were on the fence. I guess it really depends on what you're comfortable with. Personally, I come from the wrx/sti world, so the pedal feel I get without the springs is very familiar to me. But ymmv. I just like how easily the pedal returns to the top now vs before it felt like it was going to get stuck on its return travel (after lowering clutch pedal right above the brake pedal).

Originally Posted by Andrew025

At this point, I have no idea where the stock height is since I've messed with it a lot since pulling the spring.
My concern was that the engagement point is always at the top of the pedal no matter where I adjust it to (after removing the spring).

Huh, that's interesting. I'll try playing with it this weekend and see if it's the same for me. What might this mean? I know prior to pulling the spring, full engagement moved down with the pedal. I wouldn't think this would make much of a difference, but maybe it does?

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[Tt3Sheppard]

Removed the spring yesterday and wow what a difference. This is the way the car should have been out of the factory.

To remove I used two flat head screwdrivers, one to hold the C clip and the other to push it out. I then used one flat head to push out the rod a bit and used vice grips to pull it out the rest of the way. To get the spring out I pushed the clutch in and used a flat head to push the spring away from me until it came loose. Seems to match what everyone else here did to remove it. Took about 15 mins.

[FRSGeek]

bump so I can find this again.

[ck-GT86]

This mod is completely reversible using common hand tools.

I don't have a mini spring compressor so I rigged together some things out of my toolbox.

Used 8 zip ties through trial and error (you really only need 4), and Vise grips.

Start by zip tying the spring at four points, much like a plus sign. Making sure the ties are snug, compress one section of the spring, then tighten the loose ties. Continue on around-and-around, you don't need to compress the spring completely to get this back in. Should look similar to the picture attached.

Tip: make the connection point of the zip tie ends near the middle of the spring, don't let the connection points be at either end of the spring, otherwise you won't be able to get the clutch spring top-hat to sit on when putting this back together.

Disassemble the clutch pedal like you did to remove the spring in the first place. That means, removing the U-shaped clip, pushing out the pin, and remove the top-hat section that sits on top of the spring.

I found it easier to remove the cruise control switch completely from the bracket underneath near the pedals. I also undid the pin and lock holding the pedal extension to the clutch cylinder connection near the gas pedal. For those who haven't removed this yet, there's a clip holding in the pin (this is the same piece you adjust to lower or raise the clutch pedal). Squeeze the plastic tips together and push the pin out. The clutch pedal will freely move once this is removed.

Load the spring, place the top hat on the spring, push the clutch pedal all the way in, and reattach the pin, but don't attach the U-shaped clip just yet. you're going to have a very difficult time trying to add the U-shaped clip with the pedal pressed in all the way.

MAKE SURE THE PIN IS PUSHED IN ALL THE WAY BEFORE YOU PROCEED.

I don't recommend cutting the zip ties until the U-shaped clip is back in, you don't want the spring to shoot out and smack you in the face.

slowly pull the clutch back, the spring with uncompress and become tight. Bring the pedal back till it touches the bracket where the cruise control switch would be. At this point, you will then reattach the U-shaped clip to the pin for the clutch pedal. Once the U-shaped clip is in, press the clutch back in until it touches the floor.

You'll notice the spring is loose, this is good. Cut one of the zip ties and yank it out either upwards or downwards with some long nose pliers. Rotate the spring by hand, cut the next and pull it out again. Continue this process, it'll get very tight by the third zip tie. Don't worry about the ties getting stuck, you can still yank these out with the spring completely uncompressed.

Finish the fourth zip tie, reattach the clutch extension to the clutch cylinder, reattach the cruise control switch, and adjust your pedal height accordingly.

Viola!

[ck-GT86]

Also, returning to stock because I'm taking my car in for a diagnosis. Gears feel and sound like they're getting slammed when I put it in gear. This was a condition before this mod, don't want any problems

[xxBrun0xx]

Just a thought after having this mod for 6 months now: if you live in an area where you sit in traffic for the vast majority of your time spent driving the car and don't want to get a leg workout every day, think twice about this mod. For everyone else, I firmly believe this is THE best mod you can do to your 86, regardless of price. This is night and day in terms of driveability. Now that you have very detailed reversal instructions (could we get added to op?), what is there to lose?

[Slysdexia]

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

Just a thought after having this mod for 6 months now: if you live in an area where you sit in traffic for the vast majority of your time spent driving the car and don't want to get a leg workout every day, think twice about this mod.....

Whether or not the clutch will feel heavy to you will really depend on your context.

If you're used to early Hondas and compact cars, have never driven stick before, or only newer cars with clutch return springs, it will feel a bit heavy.

If you're used to a truck clutch, bigger cable clutch cars, tractors, older cars with power, or any aftermarket clutch designed to be an upgrade, this will feel light.

If you're used to non-extreme performance and sports cars, it will feel normal.

It's noticeably heavier than a '90s Civic clutch, but won't feel like a workout.

[Ubersuber]

From the description this sounds like an "over center" type spring action which helps the pedal come back but also helps the pedal go down after a certain point in the pedal travel as the spring pivots on its base relative to the pin on the pedal. This is kind of a primitive "servo" effect, as in a "power assist" for the clutch pedal but purely mechanical.

Question: is this the ONLY pedal return spring because if it is and you remove it there may be a situation where the pedal won't come back on its own if the MC were to begin failing, just for example.

As I read this thread removing this spring then reveals to your foot the actual force pattern of the clutch spring on the actual pressure plate and only that force pattern, the pedal is free acting otherwise. Correct??

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

From the description this sounds like an "over center" type spring action which helps the pedal come back but also helps the pedal go down after a certain point in the pedal travel as the spring pivots on its base relative to the pin on the pedal. This is kind of a primitive "servo" effect, as in a "power assist" for the clutch pedal but purely mechanical.

Question: is this the ONLY pedal return spring because if it is and you remove it there may be a situation where the pedal won't come back on its own if the MC were to begin failing, just for example.

As I read this thread removing this spring then reveals to your foot the actual force pattern of the clutch spring on the actual pressure plate and only that force pattern, the pedal is free acting otherwise. Correct??

If I remember correctly, this spring does not push the pedal up at all. It actually pushes the pedal down. When the pedal is in the fully up position, this spring is completely compressed, It uncompresses the spring as you push the pedal to the floor. This helps by making the pedal easer to push in. The further along the pedal travels to the floor, the less pressure the spring exerts. The pressure required by the pedal is very similar with or without the spring, when you are at about 3/4 of the way to the floor. When you release the clutch, the pedal travel back up is slowed down by the helper spring. As the pedal comes up, the spring compresses and takes progressively more of the load away from your foot. As the pressure of the pedal through the stroke varies, it can make it difficult to feel where the clutch begins to grab, so slipping the clutch becomes more approximation, and less feel.

To answer you question, I haven't blead my clutch yet so I don't really know, but I don't think there is any spring to push it up in the event of master cylinder faliure. There could be a spring in the clutch MS, to help push the plunger out, but I don't remember seeing any other spring attached to the pedal itself.

[codesplice]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Question: is this the ONLY pedal return spring because if it is and you remove it there may be a situation where the pedal won't come back on its own if the MC were to begin failing, just for example.

Before I removed the spring, I did the pedal height adjustment (here). Along the way, I had removed the clevis pin which connects the pedal assembly to the rod that pushes on the clutch. I accidentally bumped the pedal, and the spring shoved it to the floor. I had to fight against the spring to bring the pedal back up.

I don't think this spring would provide any assistance in lifting the pedal off the floor in the event of a failed/failing master cylinder.

[Ubersuber]

So, what pushes the pedal fully up? I recognize that the pressure plate will kick the pedal back up but what about the last half inch to inch of "free play"?

The spring does extend as you depress the pedal and compresses as it returns so some other force is pushing the pedal back up and that force continues after the release bearing is fully unloaded.

Put another way, will the clutch pedal still fully rise after this "helper" spring is removed?

I can feel another mod coming on after reading this thread and looking at the spring actuation pattern.

[Slysdexia]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

So, what pushes the pedal fully up? I recognize that the pressure plate will kick the pedal back up but what about the last half inch to inch of "free play"?

That last half inch is free play with no reason for the pedal to rise further.

The reason they have the spring push it up for that last bit is because customers expect it to. It's the same reason Ford moved to an oil pressure switch instead of a proper sender, customers were complaining about "low" oil pressure at hot idle.

[mike the snake]

I've seen other clutches that had a weak spring on the clutch lever that pulled the pedal back that last little bit.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

...Put another way, will the clutch pedal still fully rise after this "helper" spring is removed?

I can feel another mod coming on after reading this thread and looking at the spring actuation pattern.

Yes. My pedal returns all the way up with good pressure. I have lowered clutch pedal so that it grabs a lot closer to the floor, but still don't have any "pedal flop". It might be due to master cylinder, slave cylinder, a sprung clutch fork, I really don't know, but even with about a 1/16'' of play when you first touch the pedal, It still has good pressure on it at the very top.

also, I have seen a mod here that allows you to set an adjustable stop for the top of the clutch pedal travel.