Alternatives to BRZ, sub $30k

[zygrene]

Originally Posted by STJ

Get a Silvia Spec R S15, very light weight and easy to tune.

Uh... as much as I would like one, that's definitely not an option.

[SupremeMoFo]

Originally Posted by zygrene

350Z and 370Z are out of the question because they lack a backseat. 135i is still an option but I'm not keen on owning a BMW and I'd prefer a 3 series to a 1 series anyway. Evo X is harder to find good deals on around my area.

Ah, fair enough. I don't really care if there's 4/5 seats or not - have my gf's Focus if required.

[CSSM]

How about the Fiat 500 Abarth? That is one hell of a fun car, and it only comes in manual. Starts at 22k with more torque, higher fuel economy, and less weight than the BRZ. It can handle corners too

[zygrene]

Originally Posted by CSSM

How about the Fiat 500 Abarth? That is one hell of a fun car, and it only comes in manual. Starts at 22k with more torque, higher fuel economy, and less weight than the BRZ. It can handle corners too

Ha... that's a new suggestion. Even though it's got back seats, I think it's a bit too small. And I bet maintenance on it will be a b*tch.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by zygrene

I have considered the GTI and actually test drove both a manual (for about 5 minutes) and the DSG. It was my first time actually driving a manual, but one thing I noticed right away was that the shifter felt very smooth and didn't require much effort through the gates. But the FWD and looks of the car are turnoffs for me. Seems like just a sportier version of a basic economy car, which is exactly what it is as far as I know. I guess you could argue the same for the WRX/STI, but I think they're more differentiated from the Impreza than GTI/Golf R vs Golf.

I used to own an STI, now driving a GTI. If this is your first manual, the STI clutch and shifter may be a bit much for you. The clutch is heavy and engagement is somewhat abrupt. Not impossible, but definitely harder to drive smoothly than a car with an easy clutch/shifter, like the GTI (or most Hondas).

Also agree that the STI and BRZ are apples to oranges. I'd get the STI if you want acceleration. Few cars will match an STI off the line, and if you mod it, that list will get even shorter. Also can't beat AWD and 4 doors for practicality.

But if you value handling, lightweight feel, and feedback/responsiveness, the BRZ will probably fit you better.

[Kimsey47]

Originally Posted by zygrene

Ha... that's a new suggestion. Even though it's got back seats, I think it's a bit too small. And I bet maintenance on it will be a b*tch.

Are you going to be the one actually doing the work? If not I wouldn't worry about it... Now Italian wiring? That I would worry about... That or JayLo showing up on TV ruining my day.

[zygrene]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I used to own an STI, now driving a GTI. If this is your first manual, the STI clutch and shifter may be a bit much for you. The clutch is heavy and engagement is somewhat abrupt. Not impossible, but definitely harder to drive smoothly than a car with an easy clutch/shifter, like the GTI (or most Hondas).

Also agree that the STI and BRZ are apples to oranges. I'd get the STI if you want acceleration. Few cars will match an STI off the line, and if you mod it, that list will get even shorter. Also can't beat AWD and 4 doors for practicality.

But if you value handling, lightweight feel, and feedback/responsiveness, the BRZ will probably fit you better.

What would you say the learning curve is for the STI vs an "easy" car like a GTI? I can probably get one by the end of May and that would give me maybe 4 weeks total to practice before I move in July (I will be gone for 3 weeks in June). As long as I can drive safely and relatively comfortably by then, I don't mind the STI being a harder car to master.

Originally Posted by Kimsey47

Are you going to be the one actually doing the work? If not I wouldn't worry about it... Now Italian wiring? That I would worry about... That or JayLo showing up on TV ruining my day.

Well it's the maintenance cost I'm worried about, not the difficulty of doing it.

[Kimsey47]

I think sites like KBB or similiar can give you estimated maintenance cost...

I totally forgot about the Abarth making its way to the states. That car has got some great marks and would be something different! I'd add that to the test drive list!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by zygrene

What would you say the learning curve is for the STI vs an "easy" car like a GTI?

Perhaps the easiest way to put it is, if you were trying to learn stick on a STI, you'd stall more often than on a GTI. It would also be more work driving it because the clutch is heavier, the shifter is notchy, and the clutch engagement is quick.

Originally Posted by zygrene

I can probably get one by the end of May and that would give me maybe 4 weeks total to practice before I move in July (I will be gone for 3 weeks in June). As long as I can drive safely and relatively comfortably by then, I don't mind the STI being a harder car to master.

OK you'll be fine then. 4 weeks is plenty of time with an STI to learn how to get around safely. Mastering it may take some time though.

[zygrene]

So I checked KBB's estimated 5-year cost of ownership, and apparently the STI costs just as much as a 135i (around $57k). That includes maintenance, insurance, gas, and everything. If the STI is that expensive to maintain, I'd might as well get the 135i (for about the same price) for its RWD, quality, and finesse, no? It still has a backseat, and on paper it's just as quick.

[Kimsey47]

Originally Posted by zygrene

So I checked KBB's estimated 5-year cost of ownership, and apparently the STI costs just as much as a 135i (around $57k). That includes maintenance, insurance, gas, and everything. If the STI is that expensive to maintain, I'd might as well get the 135i (for about the same price) for its RWD, quality, and finesse, no? It still has a backseat, and on paper it's just as quick.

If you're wanting to accept that cost of maintenance then I'd again just say test drive em and see what you like best. Also doesn't hurt to do some google searches on the cars to see what the owner forums are saying/complaining about with their vehicles. Also a recall search too just to see if anything comes up!

[Chris]

I know it's been mentioned, but I agree with the higher maintenance costs for the German cars. It can get ridiculous. Mazdaspeed3 is on my list also, or if you can find a good deal on a G35 coupe. Got my g/f one last year, '03 auto 50k miles for $12k or so. She has already put 12k miles on it and had zero problems. Manuals are a bit harder to find though.

[Flip]

First off, stop worrying about practicing with a manual car man. It is NO big thing. My Celica was dropped off at my work at night and I, never having owned a manual car and only driving them for like 5 minutes (and not even getting remotely good at it) drove it home and to work the next morning no problem. I did take it right to a big parking lot though for a little practice. Shifting through the gears should be no problem, if a little jerky at first. Practice getting the car moving. Just keep it in your head to let out the clutch SLOW while giving it gas. No one impressed enough how slow to let out the clutch. Literally take 5 seconds to let it out completely. It's really easy and you'll have no trouble picking it up in a few days. Do NOT let the manual thing stop you from getting the car you want.

Which brings me into my next point. You obviously want the BRZ, just wait for it. With moving to California and your new job occupying your life, it'll go by like nothing. You don't want to be thinking a year from now you could have had the car you really wanted if only you waited a few more months.


But seriously more about the manual thing. 4 weeks to learn to drive safely? Dude, it won't even take you 4 hours. You might stall at some red lights, I sure as shit did, but so what?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by zygrene

So I checked KBB's estimated 5-year cost of ownership, and apparently the STI costs just as much as a 135i (around $57k). That includes maintenance, insurance, gas, and everything. If the STI is that expensive to maintain, I'd might as well get the 135i (for about the same price) for its RWD, quality, and finesse, no? It still has a backseat, and on paper it's just as quick.

Yeah the STI can be somewhat expensive to maintain and its gas mileage isn't the best. If you don't need AWD and 4 doors/hatch, I'd go with the 135i.