Air Suspension Discussion Thread - Let's Get Nerdy

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Chaz@ORT

is proprietary information.!

that's kind of a red flag...

Originally Posted by Chaz@ORT

Show me somebody with WRC dampers on their street car!

that's not the point, you claim that your dampers can adjust "correctly" to any spring rate generated by the bags


that is very high level dampening adjustment stuff, but then again it's proprietary...






reading through the marketing stuff, this is the barebones nut of it




bags work as springs, no question,
they are reliable, and overall they function as intended
their dampening is most likely nothing special and would no doubt fall squarely within the general dyno curves of most known entry level units. Weak on compression, high on rebound. I'm going to assume the only adjustment is the rebound, which will get jacked when the spring rate is increased.

I'm sure this product will have many satisfied users, but it's nothing crazy, and unless proof is shown to support an advanced damper design.. that in itself will quite clearly demonstrate your products "tuning philosophy"


because at the end of the day it is the damper that separates a working suspension and an amazing suspension.


that's all I have to say on the matter.

You can choose to hide your "proprietary" information, but it is actually the only part that would ever remove doubt from people truly interested in a hardcore suspension.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Chaz@ORT

If you buy those, you are intending your car to be a full on race car. Street cars rarely run on Penskes. Race cars…all the time but their intended use is one thing: fast lap time.

this statement is a big red flag to me because it is fallacious and improperly assumes that there is a mountainous difference between a road car that sees the track and a race car. Especially if we take aero out of the equation.


a damper is a damper, it either does its job well, moderately or poorly.


Proper control of the wheel is important for any car. Track or Street.


Instead of playing guys like Penske off as "super expensive, you don't need that kind of dampening", everyone should be gung ho and "we're providing dampening levels in line with Penske for a fraction of the cost"

[Khorne]

Agree with 7thgear 100%.
Now i have an unrelated query about air suspension. Since you are raising and lowering the ride height what is the affect of camber, toe and caster when raising and lowering. It would all change when you raise and lower the car correct.
Seems like a huge negative imo

[semowashere]

Originally Posted by Khorne

Agree with 7thgear 100%.
Now i have an unrelated query about air suspension. Since you are raising and lowering the ride height what is the affect of camber, toe and caster when raising and lowering. It would all change when you raise and lower the car correct.
Seems like a huge negative imo

That's what great about a digital system though. You set your ride height and get a alignment. Yes when you drop your car the camber changes but once you return to your ride height so does your camber. Your toe and caster (to my knowledge) doesn't change after your alignment any different than it would on a regular car.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I've never had a problem with my alignment at all.

[Khorne]

Originally Posted by semowashere

That's what great about a digital system though. You set your ride height and get a alignment. Yes when you drop your car the camber changes but once you return to your ride height so does your camber. Your toe and caster (to my knowledge) doesn't change after your alignment any different than it would on a regular car.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I've never had a problem with my alignment at all.

Toe changes with camber, then whats the point of running bags if your going to drive it at a desired height so your alignment isnt F'd? To get up a curb? To Stance it when you're parked?
I do a wheel alignment anytime i fiddle with ride height or suspension components to make sure i have the setup i want.

[Jyn]

Originally Posted by Khorne

Toe changes with camber, then whats the point of running bags if your going to drive it at a desired height so your alignment isnt F'd? To get up a curb? To Stance it when you're parked?
I do a wheel alignment anytime i fiddle with ride height or suspension components to make sure i have the setup i want.

I think I'm misinterpreting this statement, because that's the whole point of using bags... You air up to a specified ride height that you're aligned for, drive around, then dump your car when you're parked - thus, "hard parked."

[diirk]

So...question for those that have installed in an 86. What size tank will fit in the spare tire well without having to build a false floor. I'm ready to purchase a system, I just need to get a few details worked out. I'm planning to purchase the AirRide system from ORT. I'd like everything to fit in the spare tire well to keep the install clean and invisible.

[zAnSh1n]

that was my original plan as well, but with our cars equipped with such a tiny spare, there is not much trunk depth to work with...

you will need to source a [tiny] custom tank that will fit in the spare tire area, which will obviously suffer from low volume and will also have to mount the compressor sideways [which is not an issue for the most part], but running two compressors will be very difficult, if not impossible...

i know a few people have raised the trunk floor a few inches to gain that extra height to work with and it seems to have done wonders for them as far as getting everything to fit in the spare tire area...

depending on the type of exhaust you are currently running, or plan to run in the future, you may be able to mount them under the vehicle... some people are against the idea of mounting the items [tank, compressor[s], ecu, etc.] on the outside of the vehicle, but i have seen it done before on our cars... it all comes down to personal preference and priorities, since mounting it in your actual trunk will significantly sacrifice overall trunk space, which we do not have much to begin with...

my car is actually being worked on right this minute and i am heading over in a few hours once it is finished... after some research and weighing in the pros/cons of different setups, i decided to go with a standard install: right in the trunk... i chose to lose the spare in order to mount the ecu and hide all the wiring... i went with a 30" tank and dual 444c compressors...

here is a quick snap my installer sent me a few hours ago... he had some extra flooring material left over from his previous install, so i decided to go that route... i originally wanted a red tank/black wood setup, but ultimately decided on white/dark brown as you can see in the picture:



i will post some pix later after i get my car back... let me know if you have any other questions... some other members have been very helpful when i had my own set of questions regarding air and i just want to "give back to the community," haha... well, good luck with your journey !!

[diirk]

Originally Posted by zAnSh1n

that was my original plan as well, but with our cars equipped with such a tiny spare, there is not much trunk depth to work with...

i will post some pix later after i get my car back... let me know if you have any other questions... some other members have been very helpful when i had my own set of questions regarding air and i just want to "give back to the community," haha... well, good luck with your journey !!

Thanks for the info. The install looks good. I'm just trying to avoid loosing what little trunk I have.

[diirk]

Too add further to this. I talked to Jeff & Kyle at @RallySport Direct, their install uses a 3 gal Accuair tank and does fit unter the stock floor in the spare tire well. Barely. I talked to @Chaz@ORT and their seamless 3 Gal tank is a little smaller then the Accuair. Upgrading to the 444C compressor will save a little space also since it's shorter than the default 400C.

So this is my "go forward" plan as it stands right now. Subject to change until I order parts on Friday....

[dolo]

Originally Posted by zAnSh1n

that was my original plan as well, but with our cars equipped with such a tiny spare, there is not much trunk depth to work with...

you will need to source a [tiny] custom tank that will fit in the spare tire area, which will obviously suffer from low volume and will also have to mount the compressor sideways [which is not an issue for the most part], but running two compressors will be very difficult, if not impossible...

i know a few people have raised the trunk floor a few inches to gain that extra height to work with and it seems to have done wonders for them as far as getting everything to fit in the spare tire area...

depending on the type of exhaust you are currently running, or plan to run in the future, you may be able to mount them under the vehicle... some people are against the idea of mounting the items [tank, compressor[s], ecu, etc.] on the outside of the vehicle, but i have seen it done before on our cars... it all comes down to personal preference and priorities, since mounting it in your actual trunk will significantly sacrifice overall trunk space, which we do not have much to begin with...

my car is actually being worked on right this minute and i am heading over in a few hours once it is finished... after some research and weighing in the pros/cons of different setups, i decided to go with a standard install: right in the trunk... i chose to lose the spare in order to mount the ecu and hide all the wiring... i went with a 30" tank and dual 444c compressors...

here is a quick snap my installer sent me a few hours ago... he had some extra flooring material left over from his previous install, so i decided to go that route... i originally wanted a red tank/black wood setup, but ultimately decided on white/dark brown as you can see in the picture:



i will post some pix later after i get my car back... let me know if you have any other questions... some other members have been very helpful when i had my own set of questions regarding air and i just want to "give back to the community," haha... well, good luck with your journey !!

Any more shots of the setup?

[zAnSh1n]

it is still a work in progress... i am going to redo the floor, bring the tank a couple inches closer, and reorient the compressors.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by diirk

So...question for those that have installed in an 86. What size tank will fit in the spare tire well without having to build a false floor. I'm ready to purchase a system, I just need to get a few details worked out. I'm planning to purchase the AirRide system from ORT. I'd like everything to fit in the spare tire well to keep the install clean and invisible.

Hi, I installed the Airlift digital system without losing ANY of the trunk space. My air tank is very small, and located outside the car. It's a "water hammer" surge tank leftover from a plumbing project of mine. I bought the system in parts off ebay without a tank. Take a look at my install.

[mike156]

So graphs of spring rate vs. height at different pressures?

Very interested to see how much the rate actually varies.