FR-S/BRZ vs 2011+ Mustang V6

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

+1

Cars in the 90s were over engineered, cars of today aren't. Its as simple as that. Not to mention with inflation, you could buy two GT's today for the price of one Supra.

The reason for the v6 being governed at 114mph isn't just a feature for the drivers safety, its a feature for the cars safety too. You can't put a label on Ford because they engineered a sports car to be within the limits of 114mph. Once you remove that governor, your pushing the car well beyond what ford intended it for.

Anyone who has been in this scene for a long time, knows that, that's the name of the game. You want to push a car beyond its initial design, than you have to pay money to replace things. Its funny seeing all these young people who pop their engines or break something, and expect the dealership they purchased the car from to replace something for free, or just sell the car. That's the problem today, that wasn't a problem 7-13 years ago... Everybody thinks they are entitled to what ever they want.

i personally think that is pathetic, it was designed as a sports car, and for a sports car to have been governed 2mph more than a prius(prius has a 112 governor)...

this means you got to replace a lot of drivetrain parts to race it in a stock class....

my 2000 celica gts didnt need to replace any stock parts till you broke double factory hp numbers(325-350whp) at those hp numbers i could give a gt500 a run for its money... ohh yeah and my car doesnt have a governor because it wasnt made with cheap parts... well maybe the interior, but rather them go cheap on the interior than the drivetrain....

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Granted the 1000+whp capability of stock bottom-end Supras and Skylines were definitely impressive. They were still big, heavy brutes and are outclassed by many of today's performance cars. Not to say I don't love them all (gimme an FD RX-7 or an R32 GT-R any day!); technology just has gotten better.

i personally cant think of any stock engine made today that can handle 3-4 times stock hp on 95% stock internals...

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

If the V6 Mustang isn't a performance car, than I guess the STI isn't a performance car either since it ran a faster time, while bouncing off the rev limiter in the straights during the lightning lap testing.

If to you, all a performance car is, is speed, than I guess in your opinion, its not a performance car, but than neither would be the FR-S/BRZ.

yeah but for tracks with long straights where your going about 125-130, be kinda pathetic cruising along just over 110 because you car is limited both the sti and 86 can do over 130...

[SUB-FT86]

If your the type of person that never tracks a Mustang V6 then this problem isn't as big as it seems. If the car I wanted was limited to 120 mph that wouldn't stop be from buying it as I rarely go past 75-85 mph on the freeway. If the problem happens at regular speeds then Ford needs an ass kicking.

[serialk11r]

Having an engine overbuilt and capable of producing a greater proportion of power over stock than usual is NOT a good thing, because the majority of owners do not modify their engines for ludicrous power and thus they are lugging around an unnecessarily heavy engine and associated parts.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p-2011-feature

And here is a picture of the track, which the V6 killed the STI on, with its 114mph limiter.

yeah it banged against that limiter for 15 seconds see that would ruin the fun for me if i took it to a track, being on cruise control for 15 seconds would NOT be fun...

ide have more fun in a RV going around that track....

[Capt Canuck]

Fun is in the corners, not the straights.
The oomph and the seriously exceeding normal motorway speeds can be a rush, but meh that wears out, navigating the corners is the entertaining bit.

[vivix]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

yeah it banged against that limiter for 15 seconds see that would ruin the fun for me if i took it to a track, being on cruise control for 15 seconds would NOT be fun...

ide have more fun in a RV going around that track....

And the BRZ/ FRS would have to try really hard to even hit 114 on the same track (going by the RX8's top of 117). Did you even read the article? Did you even glance at the data? The v6 mustang isn't bad at all and would most likely rape the toyobaru on this track.

"But brah, its all about how you feeeeel driving the twisstttiieeesssss"

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by vivix

And the BRZ/ FRS would have to try really hard to even hit 114 on the same track (going by the RX8's top of 117). Did you even read the article? Did you even glance at the data? The v6 mustang isn't bad at all and would most likely rape the toyobaru on this track.

"But brah, its all about how you feeeeel driving the twisstttiieeesssss"

exactly, and the brz/gt86/fr-s is all about the twisties, and you do realize the 86 only needs 195whp to put down the same power to weight as the v6 mustang right? thats what? intake/headers/testpipe/tune, and there wont be a need for an aftermarket ecu since the stock ecu is unlocked from the factory...
plus i dont have to worry about exploding drive shafts, exploding drive shafts, and ohh yeah exploding drive shafts...

ive never heard of a 300 hp sorts car blowing its driveshaft just over 100 mph, nor would i want to buy a car knowing i would have to replace it....

plus my friends new mustang has sludging problems and hes at 20,000 something miles, again another reason i wont buy it

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Granted the 1000+whp capability of stock bottom-end Supras and Skylines were definitely impressive. They were still big, heavy brutes and are outclassed by many of today's performance cars. Not to say I don't love them all (gimme an FD RX-7 or an R32 GT-R any day!); technology just has gotten better.

They were also truth-stretched. RBs blew up their oil pumps and 2JZs tore apart their rod bolts. A lot of those that survived on honest stock bottom ends are also one-pull wonders. One 4 figure pull (on a Dynojet of course) and a 600 hp street tune.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

exactly, and the brz/gt86/fr-s is all about the twisties, and you do realize the 86 only needs 195whp to put down the same power to weight as the v6 mustang right? thats what? intake/headers/testpipe/tune, and there wont be a need for an aftermarket ecu since the stock ecu is unlocked from the factory...
plus i dont have to worry about exploding drive shafts, exploding drive shafts, and ohh yeah exploding drive shafts...

ive never heard of a 300 hp sorts car blowing its driveshaft just over 100 mph, nor would i want to buy a car knowing i would have to replace it....

plus my friends new mustang has sludging problems and hes at 20,000 something miles, again another reason i wont buy it

You can get a BRAND NEW performance drive shaft for just over $600. How much will it cost to get the 86 to 195rwhp? I'm gunna go ahead and say more than $600.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

exactly, and the brz/gt86/fr-s is all about the twisties, and you do realize the 86 only needs 195whp to put down the same power to weight as the v6 mustang right? thats what? intake/headers/testpipe/tune, and there wont be a need for an aftermarket ecu since the stock ecu is unlocked from the factory...
plus i dont have to worry about exploding drive shafts, exploding drive shafts, and ohh yeah exploding drive shafts...

ive never heard of a 300 hp sorts car blowing its driveshaft just over 100 mph, nor would i want to buy a car knowing i would have to replace it....

plus my friends new mustang has sludging problems and hes at 20,000 something miles, again another reason i wont buy it

the issue here is that once youve spent that much you have a car more expensive than the gt. the brz is already like 3-4k more than the v6 mustang. im not saying i would ever buy one (largely because the gt is barely more expensive and imo the better value) but its hard to ignore what the mustange does to the perception of what your dollar gets you

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the issue here is that once youve spent that much you have a car more expensive than the gt. the brz is already like 3-4k more than the v6 mustang. im not saying i would ever buy one (largely because the gt is barely more expensive and imo the better value) but its hard to ignore what the mustange does to the perception of what your dollar gets you

yeah but you also need to spend 4k on a new tranny when you buy a gt because the Chinese crap that comes in it likes to go bad quick...

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

You can get a BRAND NEW performance drive shaft for just over $600. How much will it cost to get the 86 to 195rwhp? I'm gunna go ahead and say more than $600.

yeah most likley, or it might not, a straight pipe and a new intake can run you $600 if you make it yourself out of the same materials anyone else would, plus a tune could yield that much IF the FA20 is on a very conservative tune, as numbers go the FA20 puts out 160 g/km and put out 100hp/L my 2zz-ge put out 105hp/L and had a 180g/km emissions, i was able to tune 19whp out of my car with out mods putting me at 180whp, ive got a trd exhaust and ported stock headers that put me at about 191-193 whp with a tune, intake would put me just over 200 whp

at one point i did have a cold air intake PPE headers and trd exhaust w/ tune and i was putting down 215-220 whp depending on the dyno

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

yeah but you also need to spend 4k on a new tranny when you buy a gt because the Chinese crap that comes in it likes to go bad quick...

that simply isnt the case for the majority and we probably need to wait until the frs is out before we start knocking other cars quality. i dont know if i think that there is enough evidence to call the tranny thing a real problem

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by fatoni

that simply isnt the case for the majority and we probably need to wait until the frs is out before we start knocking other cars quality. i dont know if i think that there is enough evidence to call the tranny thing a real problem

[u2b]_ATBtw8dqXE[/u2b]

yeah if that isnt an issue, i dont know what is...

[u2b]GAXRFtYszng[/u2b]


ohh yeah and this one too and this guy is at 5k miles....