Alternatives to BRZ, sub $30k

[zygrene]

Shoot, I'd really rather not have to deal with private selling, and like you said, I don't want to lose value from trade-in in just a few months. Now I'm seriously considering an S2000 again... maybe a newer 07/08/09 would be reasonable. There are quite a few stock ones with less than 50k miles in my area for around $25-28k.

[bimmerboy]

Just wait-

there is no NEED to get the car in may unless you are currently walking and need a car...

[Kimsey47]

Understand... I would have an S2000 right now if I didn't have a daughter. The BRZ backseat fills the requirement that the S2000 couldn't meet.

[switchlanez]

I might have overlooked it, but why do you need a new car before you move to California instead of continuing to drive your Civic in California and waiting til the BRZ is available as an option among the other cars you're interested in?

And I agree with calling up dealers that are on your driving route to CA. Here in KS, one dealer had all 4 of its alloted BRZs unspoken for weeks after dealers started taking orders.

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I might have overlooked it, but why do you need a new car before you move to California instead of continuing to drive your Civic in California and waiting til the BRZ is available as an option among the other cars you're interested in?

Makes the MOST sense. Who wants to put several thousand miles on a brand new car in a road trip that will cost them time, energy, and stress if it brakes down from an oversight at the factory?

Just drive your civic until you get there, then start looking for a car. You're stressing yourself out for no reason, man. Take a step back and look at the situation reasonably.

[zygrene]

I'm going to try calling some more dealerships like you guys suggested, but even if I was able to get #1 or 2 on the pre-order list, that would mean I have to trade in my Civic during the roadtrip and transfer all my cargo over. I guess that's not too big of a deal, but I'd have to get used to driving the car while actually driving to California... or just take an hour or so to practice on small roads near the dealer.

The reason my parents wanted to get me a new car before I move is that they're a bit worried about the Civic's reliability/safety at 15 years and 155,000 miles. I know it's a Honda and all, but sometimes I really don't feel safe driving it. The steering wheel vibrates horribly at 70+ mph and the brakes aren't the best. And I'm not eager to dump money into maintenance on it at this point. A realistic trade-in value at a dealership is around $1000-1500, so it wouldn't make much sense.

If I can get a BRZ on the way to California, that's what I'll do (with parents' approval). If not, an S2000 would be equally if not more satisfying because I've dreamt about owning one for years now. How are these? And realistically speaking, how much less practical is the S2000 than a BRZ?

[zygrene]

Never mind, S2000 is out of the question due to practicality. Now I'm considering a 2011 STI sedan for around $33-34k with 10k miles. I would just pay the difference over $30k. Fuel economy is realistically like 18-20 combined, which is bad, but it's an STI... and PLENTY of cargo space.

Worth it?

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by zygrene

Never mind, S2000 is out of the question due to practicality. Now I'm considering a new 2012 STI sedan. I would just pay the difference over $30k. Fuel economy is realistically like 18-20 combined, which is bad, but it's an STI... and PLENTY of cargo space.

Worth it?

Right now man, you're swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other in the hopes to find something that will fit your criteria. I'm not trying to be rude, please try not to take it that way! But myself (car shopping last month) and my best friend (who is currently car shopping) have done the same thing as what you're doing right now. You're trying to find a car that will fit and justify it, because you feel you need a new ride now as the "new car" feeling grows on you.

Moving from a BRZ to an STI is a huge leap in terms of driving dynamics and criteria for purchasing a car.

This is a time to be very, very honest with yourself, or else you will end up with regrets in 6 months. Just my two cents man. I'm not here to tear you down, just trying to give you some advice.

[zygrene]

Originally Posted by D4ng3r

Right now man, you're swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other in the hopes to find something that will fit your criteria. I'm not trying to be rude, please try not to take it that way! But myself (car shopping last month) and my best friend (who is currently car shopping) have done the same thing as what you're doing right now. You're trying to find a car that will fit and justify it, because you feel you need a new ride now as the "new car" feeling grows on you.

Moving from a BRZ to an STI is a huge leap in terms of driving dynamics and criteria for purchasing a car.

This is a time to be very, very honest with yourself, or else you will end up with regrets in 6 months. Just my two cents man. I'm not here to tear you down, just trying to give you some advice.

I absolutely understand and agree. The STI is a very different car than the BRZ. It's got tons more power, is much bigger and heavier, and has AWD vs RWD. But regardless of what car I end up getting, there are two mandatory criteria:

1) backseat
2) available by July

At this point it doesn't look like I can opt out of either of those, because like I said, my parents are buying me this car and it's up to them.

And since I essentially have zero experience driving a nice manual car, I don't actually know what kind of car will suit me. On paper, it seems like the BRZ would be the more "fun" car to drive, but what do I know? Maybe I'll end up favoring power and grip over a slippery back end. But what I know for sure is that the STI is considerably more practical.

Well, I shouldn't say STI, because I'm still trying to decide if the STI is worth it over the standard WRX. It seems like the STI has around the same acceleration as the WRX but gets slightly worse fuel economy. But, I get the 6-speed tranny vs 5-speed on the WRX and better handling due to upgraded suspension (is this even true?). I also do plan on hitting the track at some point, so I guess the STI is the way to go for a few grand more?

[titusdrake]

Originally Posted by zygrene

I absolutely understand and agree. The STI is a very different car than the BRZ. It's got tons more power, is much bigger and heavier, and has AWD vs RWD. But regardless of what car I end up getting, there are two mandatory criteria:

1) backseat
2) available by July

At this point it doesn't look like I can opt out of either of those, because like I said, my parents are buying me this car and it's up to them.

And since I essentially have zero experience driving a nice manual car, I don't actually know what kind of car will suit me. On paper, it seems like the BRZ would be the more "fun" car to drive, but what do I know? Maybe I'll end up favoring power and grip over a slippery back end. But what I know for sure is that the STI is considerably more practical.

Well, I shouldn't say STI, because I'm still trying to decide if the STI is worth it over the standard WRX. It seems like the STI has around the same acceleration as the WRX but gets slightly worse fuel economy. But, I get the 6-speed tranny vs 5-speed on the WRX and better handling due to upgraded suspension (is this even true?). I also do plan on hitting the track at some point, so I guess the STI is the way to go for a few grand more?

Depends on your driving style. Getting an STI for your first manual might be a bit much. Its a monster

[D4ng3r]

Originally Posted by titusdrake

Depends on your driving style. Getting an STI for your first manual might be a bit much. Its a monster

I agree. I test-drove the WRX and it is more than enough machine. Even with aftermarket suspension, it will be less expensive than an STI. I would suggest going with the WRX if you are looking at those options. Its an altogether more practical machine, and less expensive. Go for the STI if you need the image/power. You can merge at freeway speeds in 2nd gear in a wrx :|

One thing that you may not be considering because you don't really have manual experience is "clutch/transmission feel". On some cars it can feel like you are moving a stick around in a pail of rocks to shift gears, and some (like the Volkswagen Golf / GTI (p.s. have you considered the GTI? ) have extremely sharp, snappy shifters that feel great to use year after year.

Some that I know of with bad shifting 'feel': genesis coupe, hyundais in general, older fords, mazdas without a short shifter ( I hear the miata is quite a good shifter though).

good feel: HONDA, toyota, new Ford (to an extent), VW/Audi, Subaru because of the direct shifting feel.

I am kinda where you are in terms of trying to find a fun drive in the sub 30k price range, and I have been trying to stay current on research etc for the last couple months so if you have any more questions, feel free.

[SupremeMoFo]

In Australia, similar options are -
- last of the line 350Zs
- absolute cheapest 2009 370Zs
- absolute cheapest 2008 135is, then the cheaper 130is and first gen Z4s
- 2008 WRX STis (hatches - easy to find them for Australian BR-Z money)
- 2002-2004 E36 M3s
- 2008 Evo X
- New Megane RS250 (probably the only other FWD car I would include...)

[zygrene]

Originally Posted by titusdrake

Depends on your driving style. Getting an STI for your first manual might be a bit much. Its a monster

Maybe, but I found a 2011 STI (nav, leather seats, non-premium alloy wheels) with 10k miles for about $33,500. At that price, I think I'd might as well jump. KBB claims that it should be worth around $36.5k plus or minus $1k.

Originally Posted by D4ng3r

I agree. I test-drove the WRX and it is more than enough machine. Even with aftermarket suspension, it will be less expensive than an STI. I would suggest going with the WRX if you are looking at those options. Its an altogether more practical machine, and less expensive. Go for the STI if you need the image/power. You can merge at freeway speeds in 2nd gear in a wrx :|

One thing that you may not be considering because you don't really have manual experience is "clutch/transmission feel". On some cars it can feel like you are moving a stick around in a pail of rocks to shift gears, and some (like the Volkswagen Golf / GTI (p.s. have you considered the GTI? ) have extremely sharp, snappy shifters that feel great to use year after year.

Some that I know of with bad shifting 'feel': genesis coupe, hyundais in general, older fords, mazdas without a short shifter ( I hear the miata is quite a good shifter though).

good feel: HONDA, toyota, new Ford (to an extent), VW/Audi, Subaru because of the direct shifting feel.

I am kinda where you are in terms of trying to find a fun drive in the sub 30k price range, and I have been trying to stay current on research etc for the last couple months so if you have any more questions, feel free.

I have considered the GTI and actually test drove both a manual (for about 5 minutes) and the DSG. It was my first time actually driving a manual, but one thing I noticed right away was that the shifter felt very smooth and didn't require much effort through the gates. But the FWD and looks of the car are turnoffs for me. Seems like just a sportier version of a basic economy car, which is exactly what it is as far as I know. I guess you could argue the same for the WRX/STI, but I think they're more differentiated from the Impreza than GTI/Golf R vs Golf.

Originally Posted by SupremeMoFo

In Australia, similar options are -
- last of the line 350Zs
- absolute cheapest 2009 370Zs
- absolute cheapest 2008 135is, then the cheaper 130is and first gen Z4s
- 2008 WRX STis (hatches - easy to find them for Australian BR-Z money)
- 2002-2004 E36 M3s
- 2008 Evo X
- New Megane RS250 (probably the only other FWD car I would include...)

350Z and 370Z are out of the question because they lack a backseat. 135i is still an option but I'm not keen on owning a BMW and I'd prefer a 3 series to a 1 series anyway. Evo X is harder to find good deals on around my area.

And if I get a WRX/STI, I'd want the sedan. The styling of the hatch is much less attractive IMO.

[STJ]

Originally Posted by zygrene

350Z and 370Z are out of the question because they lack a backseat. 135i is still an option but I'm not keen on owning a BMW and I'd prefer a 3 series to a 1 series anyway. Evo X is harder to find good deals on around my area.

And if I get a WRX/STI, I'd want the sedan. The styling of the hatch is much less attractive IMO.

Get a Silvia Spec R S15, very light weight and easy to tune.