Starting off in 1st gear

[paulca]

Originally Posted by Jyn

I started lol'ing at my desk because of the mental image of me trying this on the street. I'd lurch so hard into the intersection that I'd probably just do the awkward Napoleon Dynamite runaway

Yep. Which is why I stay away from people who do this on hills.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

I will literally practice this haha.

So the idea with Hills is to hit the friction point as soon as possible to prevent rollback, right? I've been getting better at Hills still just a bit of a nervous thing with the car behind me, trying to just forget about it.

At least at first put your hand on the hand brake for when it goes wrong?

Hint: You don't need to use the handbrake as "on/off", you can hold the button in and vary it.

Don't treat it as a weird thing manuals have or an emergency brake, it's a second brake that you use with your hand, perfectly fine to use it whenever it's appropriate like when your feet are busy. Obviously at speed or in corners for the lolz on private roads only! You can duct tape the button in

[Jyn]

On smaller hills, I've gotten better to where I can find the clutch engagement point with minimal rollback. On steeper hills, I engage the handbrake until I feel confident I've found the clutch engagement point. The only problem is that I usually chirp the tires and scare the person in front of me

[Zelica]

When I'm in heavy traffic and steep hills, is it bad to have my regular break in still, while finding the friction point and THEN moving my right foot onto the gas?

[Jyn]

Originally Posted by Zelica

When I'm in heavy traffic and steep hills, is it bad to have my regular break in still, while finding the friction point and THEN moving my right foot onto the gas?

No, that's actually what's being suggested here. It minimizes rollback.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Exactly. And bringing the clutch out to 0.5" before engagement point while still on the brakes minimizes your roll-back (removes the guesswork in finding the engagement point and reduces the time needed to reach it).

It takes a little practice, but this works for me.

I like the idea, do you do this on a regular basis? Or just situational like hills.

I feel like one of the problems with our clutches is that there isn't a whole lot of feel to them. To me the pressure feels fairly linear and its sometimes hard to define when I'm getting close to the friction point.

[Manic]

For most mild to moderate hill starts, I just do a variation of heel-toeing. Instead of using the heel-toe to downshift, I'll use it to get on the gas while having the brake to hold myself in place until I can get the clutch to bite and set off.

It made for some pretty good practice for when I started using the heel-toe for what it's actually for.

Anything more than a moderate hill, I'll use the handbrake. Sure it might be a little bit slower and can be a little bit jerky if you rush things... but you won't roll back and it's by far the easiest method in my opinion.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

I like the idea, do you do this on a regular basis? Or just situational like hills.

I feel like one of the problems with our clutches is that there isn't a whole lot of feel to them. To me the pressure feels fairly linear and its sometimes hard to define when I'm getting close to the friction point.

Yep, I do some variation of it on a normal basis.

On hills, there's a split second of overlap between the clutch and brakes to make sure the car doesn't roll backwards. And I concentrate a bit more.

Once you have the engagement point down, starts in 1st gear are much easier. You can even bring the clutch to just prior to the engagement point, quickly rev to 3000+ RPM and engage the clutch for a faster start. This was useful at an autocross where the start was on a slight incline, for example. I would not do that on a regular basis though because of wear on the clutch and shock to the drivetrain.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by paulca

Yep. Which is why I stay away from people who do this on hills.

Wow, a mind reader too.

Give this up.

Most of the posters here are North American and we drive differently.

You would too if you tried to drive over here.

At least I hope you would.

Remember the bumper sticker from California read:

Cover me while I change lanes

Wry sense of humour those Californians, my sister received a bullet hole in the side window when driving down the California freeway East of the Bay, fortunately it went through the rear side window.

Not sure you should worry too much about drivers who roll a little backwards when starting on hills. You should also know that the few people who actually drive a manual transmission car over here generally know what they're doing. People who roll back are pretty rare over here since they drive automatics.

[jonboy99]

Just to add my 2 cents as a long time (20 years) stick driver. This car is definitely not easy to be smooth with -dead clutch and DBW see to that. Even after nearly a year with it i'm not as smooth as I am after half an hour in most Fords etc.

And to those criticising using the handbrake to hill start - lol. If you DON'T use the handbrake for hill starts in the UK, you will fail your driving test. It's one of the main reasons it's there.

[schmearcampain]

What can help is instead of giving it gas and letting go of the clutch at the same time from idle (600rpm), is blipping the gas pedal just a bit before hand to bring the revs up to about 1500 and then going from there.

Edit: Some more thoughts.

This car can actually start in first without giving it any gas at all on level ground. So think more about releasing the clutch cleanly than how much gas to give it. Just a little will work.

Personally, I don't find this car particularly hard to drive. It's certainly not harder than older manuals that only had 100 HP or less that would stall really easily.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Wow, a mind reader too.
Give this up.
Most of the posters here are North American and we drive differently.

I meant over here. If you come up a hill to a set of red traffic lights or a junction and a stationary car in front has it's brake lights on, then they are most likely sitting on the foot brake and will need to transfer to clutch/throttle. If they don't have brake lights on, they are either clutch holding (most likely) or have the handbrake on.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Haha it sounds much harder when I try to explain it in writing.

Quite the opposite. I was struggling with how to explain the technique and you nailed it. OP, practice how D-S explained this. Practice maintaining a constant engine speed around 2K RPM by increasing the throttle while letting the clutch bite harder. That's the sweet spot. Work the opposite direction too. When you're in the sweet spot, disengage the clutch a little while releasing the throttle.

Be careful not to overheat the clutch. The idea is to use as little power as possible to get the car rolling until the clutch is fully engaged.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by schmearcampain

This car can actually start in first without giving it any gas at all on level ground. So think more about releasing the clutch cleanly than how much gas to give it. Just a little will work.

It will roll without throttle, but it's a very fine line (on the UK model). In mine I really have to wait until the ECU kicks in to lift the revs or it will stall. Of course the first drive of the day while it's still on the auto choke it works great.

My old french Clio could work it's way all the way up to 20mph in 5th without touching the throttle and would hold on clutch only on slight hills at 700rpm.

This made the first week or two with the GT a bit of a bitch as I used clutch drag only a lot for maneuvering in my last car and my GT just doesn't have the idle pull for it and needs you to "crack" the throttle open a hair.

It really just depends on the ECU of the car and how much it wants to aid the driver regards stalling etc.