Mods, Warranties, and the Dealer

[btoast]

I'm curious to hear peoples stories about getting work done, specifically warranty work, at the dealer with modded cars.

When I had my Audi the dealer was super cool with my mods (full turbo back, APR programming, coilovers, and more) and really had no issues taking care of warranty work -- although there was very little.

I've had my BRZ for about 2 months now and have only done minor cosmetic mods and flashed stg 1 OFT tune. I did, however, just pickup a Rev Works UEL.

So far for warranty work I have had the fuel pump replaced and will be going in next week to remedy a rear deck clicking sound as well as a rubbing/vibration sound coming from the driver's side seat belt.

How has Subaru or Toyota treated you with your mods?

From what I have read here, Toyota appears to be a bit harder on mods than Subaru but that may just be dealer specific.

[kberkel]

Not sure how much this helps.. but when I got the car I bought the extended warranty and asked about mods.

They said, unless they can prove the mods caused the damage, they'll cover it.

Then I asked.. "If I put lowering springs on the car and the struts eventually fail, will the struts be covered?"

And the warranty guy said.. "Yeah you're probably fine"

I'm interesting to hear stories

[go2brz]

My dealer will do any work and mods as long as it does not involve a major mod that changes the basic safety of the original car. As far as mods done outside the dealer, they have no problem, but if something was installed poorly or improperly (or pushes the engine to failure) don't count on the warranty to come through.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by kberkel

Not sure how much this helps.. but when I got the car I bought the extended warranty and asked about mods.

They said, unless they can prove the mods caused the damage, they'll cover it.

Then I asked.. "If I put lowering springs on the car and the struts eventually fail, will the struts be covered?"

And the warranty guy said.. "Yeah you're probably fine"

I'm interesting to hear stories

Extended warranty does not cover wear and tear items... take what the warranty guy said with a grain of salt....

[kberkel]

Originally Posted by N1rve

Extended warranty does not cover wear and tear items... take what the warranty guy said with a grain of salt....

Good point now that I think about it. I had to make the decision real quick, wish I researched the warranty stuff before making the quick decision in the office

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by kberkel

Good point now that I think about it. I had to make the decision real quick, wish I researched the warranty stuff before making the quick decision in the office

The good news is, you can still return it.

[tjohnson104]

I had a blown engine that was denied by the dealer. They said my cool flame decals added to much horsepower and pushed the engine over the edge


jk, interested to hear some good news from this thread.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by kberkel

And the warranty guy said.. "Yeah you're probably fine"

"The warranty guy"... is that person selling you the warranty, or servicing your warranty needs?

The former will say anything to get you to buy.
The latter will either be smart enough to explain to you details about warranty work, or will just blow you off with scare tactics about denial of work with aftermarket parts.

Originally Posted by btoast

I'm curious to hear peoples stories about getting work done, specifically warranty work, at the dealer with modded cars.

OP, here's what you need to understand about warranty work:

First, the flow:

Manufacturer:

• Obligated to sell you a car that is in working condition for stated warranty period.
• Responsible for providing you (via dealership network) proper car service and warranty against defective parts for duration of warranty period (read your warranty booklet that came with the car).
• Responsible for reimbursing dealership for authorized warranty work.
• Can deny payment of warranty work to dealer for improper claims.

Dealership:

• Obligated to carry out warranty work on behalf of manufacturer.
• Makes determination of warranty work at discretion of service advisor (backed up by regional/field rep from manufacturer)
• Is responsible for "paying" up front the cost of warranty work (to the mechanic). Money is reimbursed based on estimated length of said work (often via TSB or other internal documents).
• Is responsible for cost of any warranty work done that can be denied by manufacturer.

Vehicle owner:

• Has responsibility to maintain car according to regularly scheduled maintenance as laid out in Owner's Manual
• Needs to keep receipts for all parts installed or replaced that is not factory.
• When doing own work (such as oil change), receipts need to be kept in order to claim warranty work later (this will be requested).
• Has a duty to report/repair abnormal conditions in timely fashion, not wait till the car falls apart to repair warranty work.

There's several scenarios that play out as far as warranty work, but there's all a common link: the owner's relationship with the dealer.

No matter how you look at it, you have to get warranty work done with a dealer. The dealer is the one that writes the service contract, the dealer is the one that submits the paperwork to corporate, the dealer is the one that performs the work. Love it or hate it, that's how it works.

Having said that, there's a few things that impact your warranty experience (especially with aftermarket mods):

1) The manufacturer has final say on these matters (so the initial paperwork is very important, as is your service record with the car.)
2) Service technicians are paid either by the hour (flat rate no matter how much they work), or paid by the job. An example of this would be an approved warranty work that will take 6 hours to complete (according to the TSB), but if the tech can finish the job in 4 hours, they would be paid based on the 6-hour work and make more money that way. Dealerships know this, and a good service manager will know how to maximize revenues for the department while providing superior service.
3) Some dealerships may not be properly trained or have a bad track record of not writing up service work properly. As a result, this results in a large amount of claims being rejected by corporate (and the subsequent "we don't touch aftermarket parts" or "we don't work on modified cars" blanket response).
4) Any public posts made that tie your car to a specific activity could be used against you as evidence to deny a warranty claim. Things like track racing, abuse of car via street racing, posts on forums, etc.

But having said all of the above.... it really comes down to this.
Money.

You paid money for a new car. You have a reasonable expectation of issues with the car being fixed in a timely manner.
The manufacturer has a reasonable expectation of providing warranty fixes for the car, provided that the issues aren't the result of owner abuse, neglect, or fraud.
The dealer have a business to keep. Good claims = money coming in, everyone gets paid and customers are happy. Bad claims = money lost, tech gets paid and parts have to be paid, vehicle owner isn't going to pay so it comes out of dealer's bottom line.

Cliff Note's version:
Once you, as a customer, take a moment and view this process from the dealer's perspective, you will realize that when it comes to warranty work, it's best to take the side of the argument that will get the dealer and service department paid. It's all about your relationship with them, about being reasonable and having a level, cool-headed discussion with the dealer when an initial claim inquiry is denied, and generally working it out with the dealer.

However, if you come in to a dealer with no relationship with them, throwing out all the TSBs and service work that you've found on FT86Club.com, and generally coming off as someone that knows more about the car than the service advisor that's helping you out, guess what will happen next? The problem with the internet isn't the wealth of information presented to you, it's what you do with the information. The last thing you want to do is to show off how much (or little) you know.

An example:
- you have fuel pump chirping issue
- you go to unknown dealer and say "I have this fuel pump issue and here's the TSB related to it"

Yes, it's a valid fix... but everything has a process, and it needs to played out. Any additional information you have on your end should be provided as supplemental/backup information, not in a "Here's my car's problem and here's how you fix it" way.

As for how I know all this? 15+ years experience in the aftermarket, dialogue with all the "factory sponsored" car guys out there (SEMA Show, professional race series, corporate sponsorship, etc), plenty of friends at 15+ various dealers around the country, and several friends at the corporate level.

I'm sure I'll edit this later, writing long posts on Monday morning isn't the most ideal thing to do.

-alex

[Djratrap]

Originally Posted by btoast

I'm curious to hear peoples stories about getting work done, specifically warranty work, at the dealer with modded cars.

When I had my Audi the dealer was super cool with my mods (full turbo back, APR programming, coilovers, and more) and really had no issues taking care of warranty work -- although there was very little.

I've had my BRZ for about 2 months now and have only done minor cosmetic mods and flashed stg 1 OFT tune. I did, however, just pickup a Rev Works UEL.

So far for warranty work I have had the fuel pump replaced and will be going in next week to remedy a rear deck clicking sound as well as a rubbing/vibration sound coming from the driver's side seat belt.

How has Subaru or Toyota treated you with your mods?

From what I have read here, Toyota appears to be a bit harder on mods than Subaru but that may just be dealer specific.

Generally reflashing an ECU will void a lot of warranties. Even if it is completely "reversible" any decent mechanic can see that the ECU has been modded. It really depends on what they are looking for if you have to bring it in for warranty work.

[kberkel]

Originally Posted by mav1178

"The warranty guy"... is that person selling you the warranty, or servicing your warranty needs?

The former will say anything to get you to buy.
The latter will either be smart enough to explain to you details about warranty work, or will just blow you off with scare tactics about denial of work with aftermarket parts.
-alex

Yeah the person selling. I'd never bought a new car before. I wasn't ready to get sent off to a guys office to quickly review the different warranty packages and make a decision in a few minutes. I didn't opt for the full coverage, just powertrain, drivetrain, etc. I'm glad I did it, but would've loved to look that over for a few days