Starting off in 1st gear

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by aristo

I've driven about 3k miles and can only do 2 types of starts:

1 - super smooth but slow speed curve and no jerking (approx 2.3 seconds slipping clutch)

2 - fast start but jagged and 'sudden' speed curve (approx 1.5 sec slipping clutch)

I find that the more time spent slipping the clutch, the smoother it will be but of course spending too much time slipping is going to wear it faster..

I want to learn starting from first like an automatic transmission would.. smooth Fast and linear torque curve without spending too much time slipping the clutch (is that even possible?)

When people say they only need to slip the clutch for 1 second to get a smooth start from 1st gear I am almost inclined to not believe them (perhaps they lower the number out of shame or pride)

Also not sure what RPM or speed people are switching from 1st to 2nd gear but I aim for around 9-10 mph and 2k rpm

The 'delay' pushing in the clutch and switching gears from 1st to 2nd is super noticeable to me as I am starting along side automatic cars at a stop trying to match their smoothness curve lol

I'm in this boat with you lol.

Idk how people do starts keeping up with autos without letting the clutch out faster at a little bit of higher rpm.

One second seems really fast to get going smoothly.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by litemup

In what universe is this a good idea? 2 choices - both bad.

1. Slip the shit out of the clutch.
2. Lug the shit out of the engine

First gear is there for a reason.

Fair enough. My reason for first is parking lots and hills.

Otherwise, I'd be slipping my clutch slightly to get into 1st and then slightly again to get into 2nd. I find the difference negligible.

Time will tell how effective this is for me, but there are plenty of reports of people getting normal mileage with this method. Plus, the gear in 2nd is plenty short enough for it

Either way, I get why it's not recommended by some, but I'm comfortable doing it with minimal strain on my engine and drive train while avoiding that slight jerk between 1st and 2nd.

[#maverick#]

I find for me(uber stick noob) that reving to 1.5-2k rpms and slipping until I have like 5 mph and then letting clutch up steady gives me the smoothest starts. I shift into 2nd at like 3-4k rpm i feel like i can let the clutch up quicker and get less jerk. As for hills a buddy taught me to use the handbrake i feel comfortable with that

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

Idk how people do starts keeping up with autos without letting the clutch out faster at a little bit of higher rpm.

A bit of extra rpm isn't necessarily bad for the clutch, especially if the tradeoff is less time spent slipping (I'm talking ~2krpm here, give or take, not 5krpm launches). You'll get better at it over time though. I still occasionally screw up launches when I'm not paying attention, and I have 8 years and ~125k miles of stick shift experience...

[litemup]

Originally Posted by Manic

Fair enough. My reason for first is parking lots and hills.

Otherwise, I'd be slipping my clutch slightly to get into 1st and then slightly again to get into 2nd. I find the difference negligible.

Time will tell how effective this is for me, but there are plenty of reports of people getting normal mileage with this method. Plus, the gear in 2nd is plenty short enough for it

Either way, I get why it's not recommended by some, but I'm comfortable doing it with minimal strain on my engine and drive train while avoiding that slight jerk between 1st and 2nd.

Apologies for my last. I came off a little harsh. Just remember for the sake of the poor little journals, the engine doesn't make any real oil pressure until, what, 1.5-2K RPM.

[DeadStar7]

Originally Posted by litemup

No shame in using the hand-brake.

...there totally is. Don't ever do that.

[DeadStar7]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

Idk how people do starts keeping up with autos without letting the clutch out faster at a little bit of higher rpm.

This made me sad. Don't ever compare yourself to autos like this. You are so much better.

You can always kill any auto off the line. Their first gear is also huge. You'll definitely be changing gears before them, but you'll also be staying in your power band, while they'll only reach theirs once they get to high RPM's in that huge gear.

Back in my Honda Civic days, I raced this guy I worked with in his automatic Maxima. Completely smoked him off the line, but when he finally hit his power band, he blew past me. Pissed me off. Stupid automatic driver. No control at all. He just put his foot down.

...sorry. I'm a hater of automatics.

[paulca]

I concur with those congratulating manual newbies not giving up with the GT86. It's not an easy car to learn in.

A few things i'll second from above.

Prepare for the start before you need to, get the clutch on the bite point, the throttle responding but low revs, 1k-1.5k. Then when you need to set off your already fully ready to give it a notch more clutch and maybe a hair more throttle. Wait for the car to accelerate and then ease the rest of the clutch out and accelerate freely. When you get that down you can get more fancy with smoothly balancing throttle and clutch to hold revs low but get away smoothly and quickly.

On hills use the handbrake. It leaves your feet free to prepare the clutch and throttle to take the weight of the car so you can just lower the handbrake hold on the clutch for a second and then move off. More rev the steeper the hill.

Hill holding and slow speed maneuvering, like parking on hills is good practice, but do give the clutch little breaks from time to time if practicing on hills.

Everyone revs up by accident once in a while or stalls, it happens. Don't let it get to you. Driving in a country where everyone drives manual, it's not too uncommon to see the car in front stall. Almost everyone understands and is sympathetic. Might be different over the pond for you guys though.

[WhiteFRS69]

Originally Posted by JamesBond000

HA i got ya beat i stalled at the dealership 11 times after i bought the car... i was just trying to move the car after they trained me a little with test drive.... I figured out i was stalling because the E brake was up!

sounds like the Valet driver at my local toyota, thought he had my car in reverse, but was in first, kept stalling the car, i was litteraly 20 feet away and could here it start back up every couple seconds, i walk over to find him inches away from a wall stalling it

[HeadBanger]

Originally Posted by aristo

I've driven about 3k miles and can only do 2 types of starts:

1 - super smooth but slow speed curve and no jerking (approx 2.3 seconds slipping clutch)

2 - fast start but jagged and 'sudden' speed curve (approx 1.5 sec slipping clutch)

I find that the more time spent slipping the clutch, the smoother it will be but of course spending too much time slipping is going to wear it faster..

I want to learn starting from first like an automatic transmission would.. smooth Fast and linear torque curve without spending too much time slipping the clutch (is that even possible?)

When people say they only need to slip the clutch for 1 second to get a smooth start from 1st gear I am almost inclined to not believe them (perhaps they lower the number out of shame or pride)

Also not sure what RPM or speed people are switching from 1st to 2nd gear but I aim for around 9-10 mph and 2k rpm

The 'delay' pushing in the clutch and switching gears from 1st to 2nd is super noticeable to me as I am starting along side automatic cars at a stop trying to match their smoothness curve lol

I can slip for ~1 second and stay smooth. I'll make a video today.
I find the smoothest place to shift gears for the 1-2 shift is around 3-3.5k

Using the handbrake on a hill has a mixed opinion from me. On one hand it's good to not wreck your bumper on the car behind you, but on the other hand you wont learn. Luckily I live on a big hill. Hell, my town is called Vankleek Hill. I just went to a side street that has a pretty steep grade and practiced when I got my first manual. I stalled. I slipped a lot. I over revved. But I spent about 30 minutes doing it over and over and I learned.

To this day I'll still slip a bit long on hills sometimes. But when you have a car like my Civic Wagon with 50lbs-ft of torque, or one of the twins with very little torque, shit happens.

I wouldn't suggest learning on this car because I feel that the clutch is too light, and it doesn't have the best pedal feel ever. I'm not saying it can't be done. It's just not the best car to learn with. I've had my license 7 years. 5 of which I've driven manual cars. I drive A LOT too. When I left the dealership with my car I stalled at the first traffic light. I had the music kind of loud, and the car doesn't make much noise stock. But still. I had to learn to drive this car. It's no problem now though, and driving standard has always been second nature to me.



P.S. Sometimes I'll rev a little higher when leaving just to hear the car

[litemup]

Did Subaru ever figure out how to adjust these clutches as they're being assembled?

I would kick it up a notch and say, unless you've had an experienced driver/mechanic properly adjust the pedal throw, it would be an utterly frustrating and discouraging experience trying to learn on these machines.

Like wearing skates 3 sizes too big.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by litemup

Did Subaru ever figure out how to adjust these clutches as they're being assembled?

I would kick it up a notch and say, unless you've had an experienced driver/mechanic properly adjust the pedal throw, it would be an utterly frustrating and discouraging experience trying to learn on these machines.

Like wearing skates 3 sizes too big.

There's a thread on the DIY forum for clutch adjustment. Pretty much a ten minute mod.

I believe someone posted the thread link in this thread.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by DeadStar7

...there totally is. Don't ever do that.

No, there isn't. Using the handbrake to prevent yourself from rolling back on a hill is perfectly fine, and it's way easier on your clutch than trying to slip it a bunch to not roll back. Sure, once you get good enough with a stick, you'll just about never want to use the handbrake for starts, but there's no reason to abuse the clutch while learning.

[litemup]

No, I get that, but did they ever start arriving from the plant adjusted properly?

Mind you, they all creep up during break-in. I purchased mine at 1800 mi. so I don't know where it started biting when new.