Aftermarket Pulleys and their weights

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Namuna

New player to the game: Non-Stop Tuning (NST).

Material: 6061-T6 aircraft aluminum
Crank: 12oz/0.75lbs.
Water Pump: 10oz/0.625lbs.
Alternator: 3oz/0.18lbs.

Kit MSRP: $248.00

Groupbuy currently going on: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68052

Stay away from NST, It's basically 86motoring. I had to file a chargeback on them cause they never sent me my order.

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

The OEM crankshaft damper is probably nearly five pounds for a reason. Maybe the ATI Super Damper should be included on this list.

[jng]

Any update on the Toda component weights?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe

The OEM crankshaft damper is probably nearly five pounds for a reason. Maybe the ATI Super Damper should be included on this list.

It has been discussed multiple times in these forums. Subaru America has stated that the crankshaft pulley on the front of BRZ engines is not a harmonic balancer.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

It has been discussed multiple times in these forums. Subaru America has stated that the crankshaft pulley on the front of BRZ engines is not a harmonic balancer.

Yes, and the lightweight pulley crowd loses every time.


It's also never been proven that SOA ever said it, just some quote that's been floating around for ages.


Regardless, dollar for dollar a lightweight crank pulley is a bad investment. You'd be better off with a lightweight flywheel if you're looking for quicker revs (without endangering your engine's health)

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

It's also never been proven that SOA ever said it, just some quote that's been floating around for ages.

It's not been proven they didn't say it either. I appreciate it's a poor argument.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Regardless, dollar for dollar a lightweight crank pulley is a bad investment. You'd be better off with a lightweight flywheel if you're looking for quicker revs (without endangering your engine's health)

I will disagree because internet.
Dollar for dollar I think the pulley is a waste of money (I have one fitted) but it is relatively inexpensive verses the cost of parts and labour for replacing the flywheel. If some people think it makes a difference to their car then that's all that matters.
It has yet to be proven that a light weight pulley is detrimental to the BRZ/86/FR-S engine.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

It's not been proven they didn't say it either. I appreciate it's a poor argument.

Sorry, burden of proof isn't on me. The OE pulley speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I will disagree because internet.
Dollar for dollar I think the pulley is a waste of money (I have one fitted) but it is relatively inexpensive verses the cost of parts and labour for replacing the flywheel. If some people think it makes a difference to their car then that's all that matters.
It has yet to be proven that a light weight pulley is detrimental to the BRZ/86/FR-S engine.

Yet to be proven, but yet we've seen engine failures that supposedly have no other causes.


Occam's Razor: On a lightweight sports car that they want to rev well, why would they add mass to the crank pulley and make it a two piece bonded part? The ONLY reason for it's existence is that it's a harmonic damper.


Labor for me is free (I don't pay people to half ass modify my car when I have all the tools to do it myself). I don't see any joy in modifying a car unless I'm the one doing the work.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

The ONLY reason for it's existence is that it's a harmonic damper.

Pardon but I will have to disagree on this one; nvh also plays a part.

Originally Posted by Poodles

Yet to be proven, but yet we've seen engine failures that supposedly have no other causes.

I wasn't aware of that. "Yet to be proven" and "supposedly" doesn't lend weight to your argument. I know that on some engine configurations a harmonic balancer is required but not the FA20.

I am suggesting that a light weight flywheel would alter the harmonics of the crankshaft too.

Maybe the hypothesis that a lightweight pulley is detrimental on FA20 engines is not yet testable. That is, there haven't been sufficient number of engines break to gather data.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Pardon but I will have to disagree on this one; nvh also plays a part.

NVH plays no part as the accessories are already damped through their belts.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I wasn't aware of that. "Yet to be proven" and "supposedly" doesn't lend weight to your argument. I know that on some engine configurations a harmonic balancer is required but not the FA20.

I am suggesting that a light weight flywheel would alter the harmonics of the crankshaft too.

Maybe the hypothesis that a lightweight pulley is detrimental on FA20 engines is not yet testable. That is, there haven't been sufficient number of engines break to gather data.

Flywheel doesn't have an elastomer to act as a damper. This is all simple engine stuff and a byproduct of IC engines in general. The damper is smaller on a boxer 4, but it's still necessary.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Flywheel doesn't have an elastomer to act as a damper.

As I stated I am just guessing but given that you are changing the mass at one end the harmonics of the shaft will have changed as well.

Ah well, if my engine blows up I will let you know.

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

If it's got two steel masses with rubber in between, it's a damper. End of story.

And it's not like running without a damper is going to blow your car up tomorrow, but it WILL put more load on the main bearings as long as it's on there. As we all know, more load on the main bearings is the last thing any Subaru motor needs to be dealing with.

edit: load and RPM change the amplitude and frequency of the crankshaft vibrations as well. the damper isn't perfectly tuned to just one specific frequency and it stops working as soon as it sees any other frequency, it's able to damp a range of crankshaft vibrations. your argument about the flywheel mass changing is analogous to saying you might as well not even run struts and shocks once you replace your springs with ones with different rates.

edit edit: this is another great example of how dangerous forum knowledge is. if enough members with enough posts believe something and argue loudly enough in favor of it, it becomes accepted as fact. sort of an emperor's new clothes situation. anyone remember uncle scotty's cocktail on NASIOC? one dude who I'm pretty sure had a mild to moderate case of asperger's that had racked up thousands of posts on an internet forum decided that mixing a bunch of wildly different trans fluids together made an old, worn out 5-speed shift better in much the same way that sawdust makes a rod knock quieter or an egg makes a radiator leak less. his word quickly spread as gospel and for the next five years, hundreds or possibly thousands of impressionable forum posters started putting his cocktail in their $40,000 STi's at 15k miles for the first change. eventually, used oil analyses came out showing highly elevated wear while using that blend of fluids.

[chris912]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

Stay away from NST, It's basically 86motoring. I had to file a chargeback on them cause they never sent me my order.

damn it. are they seriously that bad to deal with? i just saw a promo for 4th of july discounts and was gonna get me a light weight crank pulley.

another Q, do they really improve throttle response?? is it very noticeable or just a little bit?

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by chris912

damn it. are they seriously that bad to deal with? i just saw a promo for 4th of july discounts and was gonna get me a light weight crank pulley.

another Q, do they really improve throttle response?? is it very noticeable or just a little bit?

This was my experience, i sent countless emails with no response, and even called, and all I got was the NST voice mail.

I have the perrin pulley and I didn't feel a difference