Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86 twins: not the drifter everyone says they are

[mines13]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

Love the way this car has evolved.... Lets take you on a journey through time. Once upon a time...

2 Years ago......
"The FT-86 will be priced a little over $20k, making it a very affordable new sports car"

Present Day
(Defenders of FR-S/BRZ)

"Oh well how could you expect the car to cost $22k? Economies, markets, demand, blah blah blah. That's why its $26k!"
_____________________________

Up until 1 month ago....
"This car should be fairly quick, likely in the 6.0 second range 0-60, and 14.5-14.8 quarter mile".

Present Day
(Defenders of the FR-S/BRZ)

"Oh well the car runs from 0-60 in a weak 7.3 seconds because of a bizarre 2nd gear shift at 59.3 MPH. Also the 1/4 mile time is irrelevant, this isn't a drag car!"
___________________________

The last 2 years.....
"The FT-86/FR-S/BRZ should be the next best drift car to hit the market since the 90's."

The start of this thread...
Highly credible folks test drifting capabilities of the FR-S and determine that it's a weak sauce drift car.

(Defenders of the FR-S/BRZ)
"Oh well this was never meant to be a drift car, dur!"
__________________________

So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.


I'm not bashing the FR-S / BRZ at all. This is simply my identification of what this car is NOT, though I am trying to figure out just what this car IS.

I think you should also add that this car is NOT for you to the list.

[brufleth]

Originally Posted by Brett

They don't come out and say it, but the front of their brochures show the car drifting. The three draft commercials that we saw at Scion HQ last weekend also show the car drifting.

Personally, I'm interested in staying planted on the road, so this is good news for me.

The WRX promotional poster in the waiting room of the dealership also shows a WRX drifting. I've had mine for almost five years and I could count the times I've had the car doing anything like drifting on one hand. On dry pavement I don't know that it has ever happened.

[shaX 07]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Maybe you should read some of these

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2671

I did. I read that the car handles really well, but that's about all it does.

[brufleth]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I beg to differ. There is also people who like the car but isn't necessarily a hater or fanboy. I love the idea and looks of this car but I am not a fan of the engine size choice when I think a FA25 would've been a perfect choice for me. I sit in the middle of the haters and fanboys. I really don't understand why someone would hate on the car overall.

Perfect? I don't know about that. Seems like placement would have been tough. Given the whole low and pushed back position they were shooting for the FA25 wouldn't have fit would it? Of course they could have organized it all totally differently but... well buy a WRX/STI then I guess.

I'm not sold on this car either. I want it to be fun but I certainly haven't driven it or even seen it in person. I won't have one for probably well over a year if ever. This article is a little silly to me though. I'd get arrested (not just ticketed) promptly if I were drifting all over the place.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't remember anybody (Toyota/Subaru) saying it is a drift car. Even Chris Harris said it is not that easy, as say an M5 or M3. I on the contrary am glad, as I am more interested in grip than drift.

Exactly

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

See this is what I am talking about. The media, not Toyota/Subaru said anything about it being a drift machine. The media overhype this car because it was something they haven't driven in a while since the 90's. And also I like how this guy addresses the issue of corners on the open road. I can see a lot of FRS/BRZ ending up in the junkyard for parts soon.

+1 Toyobaru said this car was fun for driving, and so is power sliding around corners, not really some crazy sideways action

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

When you watch the footage of journos driving the car around you can see they are able to break the rear end out a bit on a regular basis, and we are not always talking pro-level drivers with that crowd. But that action is not on the scale of drifting.

Yep, the media actually says its fun for drifting.

Its like for example, the hair comb; its purpose is to comb my hair, but it can also be used to scratch my back or something lol

This car's purpose is to be fun to drive, it just happens to also get sideways easy but not too easy for much novices.

[MmmHamSandwich]

Originally Posted by novee

...and is lighter than the current Miata

Uh huh...

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

I did. I read that the car handles really well, but that's about all it does.

Yes, and all the reviews also recommended anyone who could afford it should buy it. I think they did a pretty good job of explaining why as well, so if you didn't get it from them there's no use in trying to convince you.

Originally Posted by mines13

I think you should also add that this car is NOT for you to the list.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

"hurr durr dur!"
__________________________

So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.

This car is affordable compared to similar sports cars out there. Honestly the economy wasn't the same in 07 when project was started nor in 09 when they made everything official.

Apparently all the reviewers are saying the faster you go is better, plus the temptation to get on the freeway faster than the next guy isn't really there. I mean, I wonder why so many people like the miata's, ITR's, 240's, etc and all those are < 200hp stock and if more - aftermarket (like this car is going to have)

Backseats are for insurance not humans lol

not sure why trunk matters if backseats fold down, and apparently you don't want them, so you can remove them completely lol

And sure okay MPG is average, but cars of this caliber i.e. - S2000, didn't really have good MPG's anyways. It could certainly be better. But if you want MPG you have other sport car options

my .02

Good day!

[Veloist]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.This car is 25k at least, and along with other people, I consider the car very affordable.

This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK. Coming from a Toyota Corolla and a Scion xD, I consider this car "fast."

This is not a drift car, so let it go. Who says it's the car? Just because the driver has no skill regarding drifting, doesn't mean the car isn't a drift car? Why are they using it in drift competitions? How come Ken Gushi was able to drift it stock?

The back seat can fit toddlers at best. I have seen posts by people who are about 5'8-5'10 saying they fit alright despite smaller than usual legroom. They aren't toddlers.

The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag! Probably 2 of each. If not, that's why you put the rear seats down.

The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more. I won't even argue this one.

Originally Posted by shaX 07

I'm not bashing the FR-S / BRZ at all. This is simply my identification of what this car is NOT, though I am trying to figure out just what this car IS.

How come in the beginning you started of with "we," yet in the end you stated your conclusion from your point of view solely...

Edit: sorry for the bold

[novee]

Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

Uh huh...

I'm just going off of Autocar's comments. *shrug*

Our diminutive 2.0-litre MX-5 Coupé Cabriolet – a car held as the most convincing argument for lightness and simplicity in a mass-market sports car – is heavier than our test BRZ by around 10kg.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by shaX 07

..
So here is what we have determined this car is NOT...

This car is not "affordable" as it was once meant to be.
This car is not fast, and not considered a "drag car" so being slow is OK.
This is not a drift car, so let it go.
The back seat can fit toddlers at best.
The trunk can probably fit your backpack AND your duffle bag!
The car gets worse MPG than a 505hp Z06 Corvette that weighs 600 pounds more.

....

Haven't been on here for two years, so I can't speak to the earlier claims other than they don't seem to be any different than any other car you look at 2 or 3 years out. Price point is never reached, the car never performs exactly as the first goal, etc.

What I can tell you for me, the Car IS:

...Affordable. That's truly an individual decision. Some people think a ZR1 is affordable, or that anything over >$10K is not. It's subjective.

...Fast enough. I've driven it, maybe its only perception, but the car is satisfyingly fast for me. Again, a subjective point.

...a driver's car. Could I drift it? Probably. Will I? No. I can tell you from actually driving the car, even with TC on, I was able to push the rear end around enough to make it exciting and fun.

...a 2+2. Backseat is usable for 3 to 4 adults, for a short distance. No, I wouldn't want to ride in the back for hours, but I would for a short hop to the movies. Then again, I'm not 6'3" tall either. I saw four grown males in the car, they all survived. This is no different than any other 2+2.

...decent trunk space. Two people could travel in the car of a week, no issues. 3, probably a weekend. 4, you're not going to do that in this car anyway.

...MPG. Hit the numbers I was looking for, and since I'm OK with the WHP, its all good.

Add, looks. Love the way this car looks, again subjective. I also love the Camaro, the Caddy CTS series, and even the Kia Optima and the new VW Bug. Yes, I'm all over the place.

Again, YMMV and obviously yours does.

[Allch Chcar]

Hey guys. Trolls don't use logic and reason.



You have to use emotions and generalizations, trolls gloss over details.

Eg. (Not my opinion)

"This car is incredibly light weight and the HP is more than enough to make it faster than the average car. You will feel like a race car driver as you carve through the windiest of corners all the while keeping constant communication with the car's back end."

I doubt shax is as ignorant as he seems. He knows all the faults already and said the only advantage, which is handling. Now is the time to ask if serious.

[AVOturboworld]

I can easily get a 2.0 n/a Legacy to do a 4 wheel "drift". Not for long, but it was fairly easy to do. Or, more accurately, I was able to get it sideways. I'm sure getting the BRZ/FRS is very easy to get sideways in comparison, and it is easy enough to drift wheel's a-spinning if you go into the corner with some balls and a decent head of steam.

The issue that I see, and it's a common one, is that everybody reading these articles somehow assume that all magazine drivers have the same skill levels and driving ability. And that is simply not the case, magazine reviewers driving skill range from abysmal to ex-professional race driver. I've driven against many and got to view it first hand. The reason for that is simple, though, writing ability trumps driving ability.

So my advice is to average reviews of a particular car. If you have a majority of them saying good to great things, that is a fair indicator it is actually such. Seizing on a few dissenting opinions and saying that they must be the only ones telling the truth is, well, simply an excuse to look for some support for an opinion you hold.

Honestly, while there's some hand shaking and pressure in general to say good things about a car, the truth is that manufacturers do that for every. single. car. If the press really acted on those pressures, then every single car would have a fantastic review.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I beg to differ. There is also people who like the car but isn't necessarily a hater or fanboy. I love the idea and looks of this car but I am not a fan of the engine size choice when I think a FA25 would've been a perfect choice for me. I sit in the middle of the haters and fanboys. I really don't understand why someone would hate on the car overall.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

shaX 07, you forgot turbo! How can you be objective and no has turbo?



You's trolling!

My kingdom for a sarcasm font. Trust me, I'm neither fanboi nor troll.