URAS Widebody 86 with Supra 2JZ Swap in the making (UPDATED)

[bFreed]

There's an S14 with a single turbo RB26 at my shop that is strictly a time attack car....

2JZ really can't be beat. All around. Weight? Eh. It wont feel like a miata. But it wont feel like what you think either. We do a lot of 2JZ swaps into 240s and they are definitely not all drag/show cars....... 240s can weigh in under 2800 lbs with the swap.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by bFreed

There's an S14 with a single turbo RB26 at my shop that is strictly a time attack car....

2JZ really can't be beat. All around. Weight? Eh. It wont feel like a miata. But it wont feel like what you think either. We do a lot of 2JZ swaps into 240s and they are definitely not all drag/show cars....... 240s can weigh in under 2800 lbs with the swap.

Now that I realize the kind of person I'm dealing with I'm not continuing this argument. It's not going to go anywhere.


Just some food for thought though: The Mustang Cobra Motor fits in my car with a not-so-hard to install retrofit kit that you use to convert it to RWD, fit the motor, make room for the 5 speed transmission and there's room for the diff in the back. This conversion gives the car a LOT more power and the handling is improved also. This means that the same conversion would yield the same results in a Dodge Neon right? See where I'm going with this?
Not to mention, the RB26DETT and SR20DET motors are extremely popular and fairly simple conversions for 240's and there's more than enough room to do the swap up front. Have you SEEN the engine bay in the FRS? You can turn whatever you want into a time attack car; that does NOT mean that it's as effective as it would with a more native configuration, and it sure as hell doesn't mean it's unbeatable.

[Matador]

Whatever happened to my post in this thread?

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by bFreed

There's an S14 with a single turbo RB26 at my shop that is strictly a time attack car....

2JZ really can't be beat. All around. Weight? Eh. It wont feel like a miata. But it wont feel like what you think either. We do a lot of 2JZ swaps into 240s and they are definitely not all drag/show cars....... 240s can weigh in under 2800 lbs with the swap.

Yeah, the 2JZ is a legendary motor for sure. The ability for it to make such nice power is well known, and it's reliable at the same time. Sure, it's not going to feel 100% the same, but the suspension can easily be adjusted to compensate for it, and with proper upgrades it will in the end pull even better numbers in handling than stock anyways. So there's no trade off here. You can have a better handling car with substantially MORE power all around which will greatly benefit the "fun" of the car off and especially ON the track.

But some people bought the "light as possible > anything else" hook, line, and sinker. 3,000-4,000lb cars can, and will, out perform this car on closed tracks as long as their suspension has equal effort put into them. Power isn't a "fun killer", it can in fact, and I know it's hard for some to understand this, make the car MORE fun.

[bFreed]

Yea, maybe I should have worded that a bit differently. 2JZ of course can be beat, ha. But generally they are one of the best motors out there. Simplicity, strength, reliability, sound. Over all, the 2JZ is an amazing motor. But well...already been said.

Of course a flat 4 engine making the same power and torque as a 2J would be a better choice when it comes to any kind of grip racing. But, well.... that's not easy (or really possible) to get, reliably.

Most people on this forum aren't going to be entering the GT300... It really would be difficult for most people to tell the difference...

With that said, I doubt I will be putting a 2JZ in my car anytime soon. haha. But if I did want 700+ whp I would without a doubt.

[OrbitalEllipses]

I get it now. The 2JZ is the LSx of the import world. Go on about your business now.

[titusdrake]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Yeah, the 2JZ is a legendary motor for sure. The ability for it to make such nice power is well known, and it's reliable at the same time. Sure, it's not going to feel 100% the same, but the suspension can easily be adjusted to compensate for it, and with proper upgrades it will in the end pull even better numbers in handling than stock anyways. So there's no trade off here. You can have a better handling car with substantially MORE power all around which will greatly benefit the "fun" of the car off and especially ON the track.

But some people bought the "light as possible > anything else" hook, line, and sinker. 3,000-4,000lb cars can, and will, out perform this car on closed tracks as long as their suspension has equal effort put into them. Power isn't a "fun killer", it can in fact, and I know it's hard for some to understand this, make the car MORE fun.

So you dont like the frs/brz? Why are you here then? This car is not about numbers or being faster than other cars... Its about fun.. And it is very fun to drive

[Genomaxter]

He is lost to us. He believe he can make a 2 ton car fast by putting "equal monies" into the suspension as an FR-S can into its engine and expect to compete. Engines are cheap to build compared to an entire chassis. He will learn that one day. The 2jz is an amazing motor. Its a relic now tho.

If it goes in an FRS, the car will become front heavy and the center of gravity will go up. It will also gain a good bit of weight. The wheel base isnt meant for the 2jz to be boosted anywhere near 600+ hp, you will just spin out trying to exit a corner if you get on it too soon and with it being front heavy you cant dive into corners or go through high speed corners since your rear isnt planted as well, so you would be holding back alot. Now take that 20k (very cheap estimate)you just spent converting that car into a 2jz "monster" and put that in an FA20 and it will be showing you its tail lights because it was already well balance, now has a bit more power and way better handling than before. And it will do it all easier. The 2jz is a proven power house, but the swap is anything but and the only people who could make such a car work have their own shop, years of knowledge, months or even years of time, and plenty of cash to do the R&D needed to make it happen. In short, no average joe will do it and make it work.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Yeah, the 2JZ is a legendary motor for sure. The ability for it to make such nice power is well known, and it's reliable at the same time. Sure, it's not going to feel 100% the same, but the suspension can easily be adjusted to compensate for it, and with proper upgrades it will in the end pull even better numbers in handling than stock anyways. So there's no trade off here. You can have a better handling car with substantially MORE power all around which will greatly benefit the "fun" of the car off and especially ON the track.

But some people bought the "light as possible > anything else" hook, line, and sinker. 3,000-4,000lb cars can, and will, out perform this car on closed tracks as long as their suspension has equal effort put into them. Power isn't a "fun killer", it can in fact, and I know it's hard for some to understand this, make the car MORE fun.

I'm enrolling you in a physics 101 course at your local community college.

[JohnnyR]

Yes, you can put money into a MKIV Supra's suspension and compete, easily. People seem to forget the numbers that car used to put out back in the day on the skidpad and on closed courses because everyone just focused on it's incredible engine.

I'm sure you can make a Mustang GT easily compete handling wise as well with mods, and a Boss will beat it out of the box.

Anything can be made faster and better than the next car. I owned a 2k GTS bought new back in the day, and I know even it being FWD with the Hotchkis setup would put out supercar handling numbers. I also know a heavy awd GTR will smoke this car in every test, contrary to beliefs that if a car weighs in over 1.5ton that it can't handle here. Not to mention something closer in price that's heavy, say, an Evo X even. So what's the problem here again?

All I'm saying is that this car isn't "tainted" by it getting a legendary motor like some make it sound to be.

I still around because I appreciate a good handling car, which this is, and with a proper suspension, heck even tires alone it would be incredible. To me it would make a great everyday beater if it fit my frame better (6'2" 225lbs). Yet, I don't like how people dismiss and can't understand why some of us wished they went another route and made a proper engine for the car that's easily tunable to put out better power, say Turbo or SC. It's understood this is a "fan site" but keep things reasonable and it'll be a better place.

[Genomaxter]

The gtr doesn't handle well because of any magic, it handles because it has almost full race suspension and the stickiest, widest tires you can possibly put on a road car and still do okish in rain. That is as good as it will get without huge wings and weight reduction. And when I see it that way, its not impressive at all. Just jacked up from the factory. Boring. Great if you want a cheap, fast car. Also, the car murders its tires so fast from its own weight, you won't have time to really enjoy it before you spend another 2k on a new set of tires. Weight is an enemy. If you don't think so, you have never raced hard enough or long enough to see.

I'll take an r34 over an r35 any day. It's far more fun that way for a brutish awd car.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by igorot

Yes while the swap is awesome, its a bit disappointing that some companies are not developing the FA20

Cosworth is in the works with the FA20, But for now you can just drop a ej257 right in a tune it.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by Genomaxter

He is lost to us. He believe he can make a 2 ton car fast by putting "equal monies" into the suspension as an FR-S can into its engine and expect to compete. Engines are cheap to build compared to an entire chassis. He will learn that one day. The 2jz is an amazing motor. Its a relic now tho.

If it goes in an FRS, the car will become front heavy and the center of gravity will go up. It will also gain a good bit of weight. The wheel base isnt meant for the 2jz to be boosted anywhere near 600+ hp, you will just spin out trying to exit a corner if you get on it too soon and with it being front heavy you cant dive into corners or go through high speed corners since your rear isnt planted as well, so you would be holding back alot.

Its too late to ask Carroll, But people used to tell him the same thing. Then the Cobra and the Daytona coupe was born. And the rest is history.

I do agree that putting 20k into a BRZ/FR-S would make a better car. But doing this swap is more about being the 1st guy to do it and all the fame that comes along with it.

[noAE86]

lotus elise / Hennessy venom

i see the gt86 in the same light as a lotus built sports car,
reason being,,,
light, under powered, go kart like response with mega loads of fun on top,
if lotus wanted to build a hyper car with mega power plants they could, but they saw there is a gap in the market for a light sporty drivers car that might see days at a track event and that's what we get from lotus, look at the Hennessy venom's stupid power, and the butchery they did to the Elise is sacrilegious. fun for a laugh but would rather have a stock'ish Elise,

same goes for this new gt86,
"once the 2jz and LS swaps are all forgotten (not to mention the chassis will be twisted to sh!t, we'll still come back to the original design concept, light and fun,,,,and super charged