Clutch wear?

[megancheung]

My friend's 2007 Hyundai Elantra’s clutch needed replacement after 76,000 km. he took extra precaution to minimize clutch wear with soft gear changes and avoiding high-rev starts. Also, most of it was highway kilometers.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by megancheung

My friend's 2007 Hyundai Elantra’s clutch needed replacement after 76,000 km. he took extra precaution to minimize clutch wear with soft gear changes and avoiding high-rev starts. Also, most of it was highway kilometers.

Your friend is doing it wrong. My wife's Mazda3 is on its original clutch at 145k miles, despite many miles in stop/go Boston traffic.

"Soft gear changes" implies clutch slippage. Clutch slippage decreases life. Longer life with quickly going from 100% disengaged to 100% engaged with minimal slippage, even if it's less smooth that way. The art is in making it smooth while minimizing slip.

[spydervs3]

I've never drove a manual car, but i ride dirt bikes which I hope will make me not have a issue

[OMNOM]

I think all the newbies will be ok. I learned on a 2004 WRX, and the only things that really kill clutches have been mentioned already. Things like slipping and hard launches are what kill clutches. You may do that by accident (or on purpose haha) a couple times while learning, but overall if you're learning it right and feeling for the engage point, you'll be fine within a day or so. I drove the BRZ over the weekend and the clutch isn't a bad one to learn on at all. Fairly forgiving, and encourages you to be quick off the pedal.

[lookitschloe]

This doesn't have to do with the clutch exactly, but I think it's also worth mentioning: Do not rest your hand on the shifter.

[Ikaros]

Man there's so much info here for beginners like me. But I'm kinda confused at down shifting at stops lights now lol. I was under the impression that you can just slow your car down in what ever gear your in (say 3rd) at a stop light, and when your fully stopped change to neutral. This is probably the wrong way to do things lol.

So if I understand correctly, to slow down from 3rd gear I need to down shift to 2nd then to 1st gear then finally to neutral? Also while doing these gear changes, what rev would you down shift at?

I'm fine with shifting up, its stopping the car that's confusing me xD

[M-17]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

Man there's so much info here for beginners like me. But I'm kinda confused at down shifting at stops lights now lol. I was under the impression that you can just slow your car down in what ever gear your in (say 3rd) at a stop light, and when your fully stopped change to neutral. This is probably the wrong way to do things lol.

So if I understand correctly, to slow down from 3rd gear I need to down shift to 2nd then to 1st gear then finally to neutral? Also while doing these gear changes, what rev would you down shift at?

I'm fine with shifting up, its stopping the car that's confusing me xD

I feel ya, I haven't driven a manual consistently in years and downshifting was always iffy on my end. Gonna need to start working on it before I get my BRZ.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

Man there's so much info here for beginners like me. But I'm kinda confused at down shifting at stops lights now lol. I was under the impression that you can just slow your car down in what ever gear your in (say 3rd) at a stop light, and when your fully stopped change to neutral. This is probably the wrong way to do things lol.

So if I understand correctly, to slow down from 3rd gear I need to down shift to 2nd then to 1st gear then finally to neutral? Also while doing these gear changes, what rev would you down shift at?

I'm fine with shifting up, its stopping the car that's confusing me xD

There's a few schools of thought on this:
- just start slowing down leaving the car in gear until it's bogged down or "slipped" then just push the clutch down and put into neutral. Usually people do this when slowing down from speeds over 20/25, for a complete stop.
- some people just clutch and neutral it while letting their brakes do all the work and thus put more wear on their brakes when coming to a complete stop.
- some people will say, from 4th go into 3rd, let "engine compression" slow them down, go into 2nd, and then neutral to the stop.
- some people will while slowing down during spirited driving say in turns, slow down and blip the throttle while shifting to match up the next lower gear help keep the revs up to then apply the throttle and get on the power sooner and smoother when going through a turn.

It's situational, depends on the car, the type of clutch (can it handle more abuse?) you have in it, and if you're slowing down to a stop or just slowing down for say turns/traffic.

Best advice is get in a car with someone and watch them drive. Go into a parking lot, learn the basics. Then, get on a slight grade to master pulling out from a stop without coasting back too far (unless suby has their hill holder on this thing?)

It's not too hard to master, and once you do, you'll wonder how you went so long without it. Then eventually you may end up like the lazies (j/k) who don't want to do this in traffic all the time and would rather worry about tweeting and booking their faces instead. :P

To me, I've been driving a manual since I was 16, and haven't had a car in auto since. I actually first learned to drive stick when I was 14 when my mom broke her right arm and I had to do the shifting for her lol.

On a side note, the clutch pedal in this car is very-very-very light.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

.. I actually first learned to drive stick when I was 14 when my mom broke her right arm and I had to do the shifting for her lol.

Ha! I learned the exact same way for the same reason in my Grandmother's Corvair when I was about 10.

I have learned in teaching others to drive a clutch that the single most important thing is to remember if the car starts stalling out, push the clutch in, don't release it! That seems obvious, but nearly everyone I've taught (maybe a dozen or so folks) always want to let it out when the car starts to stall. Once they master that fact, they almost immediately are more comfortable with the process.

[Ikaros]

Lol, most people lets go of the clutch cause their instinct when something goes wrong is stop doing what your doing. But if you know how a manual works then it just seems rather silly to bring the gears closer instead of pulling them apart lol.

Oh, I have another question, everyone keeps talking about this engagement point thing. What is it for and why is it important?

[phattyduck]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

Lol, most people lets go of the clutch cause their instinct when something goes wrong is stop doing what your doing. But if you know how a manual works then it just seems rather silly to bring the gears closer instead of pulling them apart lol.

Oh, I have another question, everyone keeps talking about this engagement point thing. What is it for and why is it important?

Rule #1 when learning how to drive a manual transmission: Put the clutch in before you do ANYTHING else, every time you do something. Wanna start the car? Push in the clutch. Wanna put the car in first gear? Push in the clutch. Something odd happening? Push in the clutch. Bucking? Push in the clutch. Grinding? Push in the clutch. EVERYTHING except accelerating in gear- push in the clutch first.

Once you know what you are doing, you can bend/break the rules for specific reasons.

Once you know what you are doing and you want to quickly shift, getting to the 'engagement point' on the clutch pedal travel quickly will speed things up. Its just the point at which friction is starting to connect the engine and transmission input. Once engine and transmission are at the same speed, you finish letting out the clutch.

-Charlie

PS. Where is everyones parents in this whole thing? They should be fired for not teaching you a manual transmission in the first year or two of driving. Even if you drive an auto, you should know a bit about how things work...

[Lo]

Originally Posted by phattyduck

...Even if you drive an auto, you should know a bit about how things work...

Always been told "what happens if your car f*cks up and a friend lends you a manual car to bail you out. Or the other way around: you're with a friend that can't drive his/her manual car (i.e. under the influence of wtv), who will lend a hand?".

[lookitschloe]

Originally Posted by Ikaros

Oh, I have another question, everyone keeps talking about this engagement point thing. What is it for and why is it important?

Setting: on level ground, your feet aren't on any pedals and the car is on and in neutral (no gear), car not moving.

Engagement point is this: clutch all the way in, put the shifter in first gear, and slowly release the clutch. nothing will happen at first, but then the car will start moving without the help of the gas pedal. in fact don't use your right foot for anything in this scenario. there is an "engagement point" that you will hit while releasing the clutch that will make the car move. that is the equivalent of D in auto.

This is important to learn so you know when you can make the car move. If your left foot is all the way in and you're in gear, you can floor the gas pedal and nothing will happen except a very loud noise. If you let your left foot all the way out with no gas, you will obviously stall. Somewhere in the middle (it's different for every car) is when you can move the car forward with the gas pedal. On my tC, it's fairly far out, so I have to release my foot far to be able to accelerate. If I release my left foot 2 inches and hit the gas, I won't go forward because I have not hit the engagement point yet. My boyfriend's Si is closer to the halfway point.

Use case: other than when you're learning, when I'm parking my car in my garage I have to go through an alley first, and I have to go back and forth to get my car in the right position before I can put my car in there without hitting anything. I don't use the gas pedal when I'm in reverse. I also parallel park sometimes without the gas pedal because I don't need to gas it.

That is mostly for you to learn how to drive. In real life, you slowly use the gas pedal and let out the clutch at the same time. The speed of both is different on each car and it depends on you. (Also depends on if you're not used to my car and the car starts to shake before you hit the engagement point making you think the car is going to stall when it's not pushing the gas before hitting the engagement point will mitigate any shaking but it won't necessarily make the car move forward. I don't know if this is something that happens on all cars or just mine.) I don't know if you've ever encountered anyone learning how to drive stick on the road, but you will notice that they will not accelerate when the light turns green even if you hear the engine getting a little louder. That is because they are finding the engagement point and slowly lifting their left foot out. When you are good at it, you will be able to go when the light turns green right away.

I hope that helped.

[bimmerboy]

given the relatively low hp/torque, I wouldn't really worry about the clutch. I bet many owners will see 100k+ miles on the stock clutch given they can drive a MT properly and keep the car stock (no turbos)


I know in my WRX days, many people could get 60-70k out of their stock clutch. That platform was far more abusive to the clutch (AWD launches, 200+ft/lbs of torque) as well.