Any info about turbochargers for the 86/BRZ?

[Freedom]

Hi everyone,

Once again I come seeking your bountiful knowledge .

I have been reading about FI and I have noticed locally that there are two companies that do superchargers (RGM and RMS).

Also from reading the other parts of the forum there seems to be many supercharger kits and turbochargers kits available overseas . But I get the feeling superchargers are more predominant or preferred for the 86/BRZ than turbochargers, is this true? If so why?

I am asking because I am trying to find a company locally that does turbochargers for the 86, if any, and to find out more information generally about going this route.

I won't be doing FI anytime soon but I want to know what hassles comes with going FI (SCs and TCs) and maybe slowly build up to FI.

[lucius]

Hi

Think best guys to speak to is Ryan (SC) and Jacques (Turbo). And then you can go all insane and look at the Phantom Electric Supercharger...interessting read on the forum...

[Fish Eagle]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Once again I come seeking your bountiful knowledge .

I really don't want to get embroiled in any SC vs TC arguments, but I'll willingly share my observations and opinions with you.
But that's all they are - my opinions...

As you know, my 86 is RGM Vortech supercharged.
I also own an old 2.5L (EJ25) turbo Subaru Forester XT which still goes like stink, so I can draw some comparisons between them.

For sensation and WOW factor, turbo is the way to go.
There's no substitute for the massive WHOOSH of power and kick in the back when a turbo starts singing.

My 86 is quicker than my Fozzie, but the Fozzie is a bigger rush to WOT through the gears despite it making almost no noise compared to the 86's gorgeous and quite loud exhaust tone. Crazy that it should feel better, but it's a fact. Here's comparative vids of the two of them - Fozzie first, then my 86 below that. Notice how the Foz drops off boost when I short-shift at about 180kph.

[ame]http://youtu.be/qW_9OGXt_JE[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/-g3mNigkr5U[/ame]

That said, now for the "buts"....

Turbo lag is a pain-in-the-arse, and my experience is with a small and quite quick spooling turbo. If you're trying to do any sort of precise performance driving then trying to anticipate how early to feed in power to budget for turbo lag is something one has to learn (and I've never quite got it right). Turbo is almost like an on/off switch, and you don't know exactly when it's going to come on.

Turbos also create bigger under-bonnet heat problems than superchargers. The way I use my 86, I'm at the limit for managing heat now, and probably need to do some mods soon in that regard. A turbo 86 would need serious heat management IMO.

To me, a supercharger is linear, much less dramatic, more predictable, and in most scenarios other than the WOW sensation - it's lekker, but...

My next car, which would I choose? Hell, I actually don't know...
Maybe one of each because they're both great.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Fish Eagle

I really don't want to get embroiled in any SC vs TC arguments, but I'll willingly share my observations and opinions with you.
But that's all they are - my opinions...

As you know, my 86 is RGM Vortech supercharged.
I also own an old 2.5L (EJ25) turbo Subaru Forester XT which still goes like stink, so I can draw some comparisons between them.

For sensation and WOW factor, turbo is the way to go.
There's no substitute for the massive WHOOSH of power and kick in the back when a turbo starts singing.

My 86 is quicker than my Fozzie, but the Fozzie is a bigger rush to WOT through the gears despite it making almost no noise compared to the 86's gorgeous and quite loud exhaust tone. Crazy that it should feel better, but it's a fact. Here's comparative vids of the two of them - Fozzie first, then my 86 below that. Notice how the Foz drops off boost when I short-shift at about 180kph.

That said, now for the "buts"....

Turbo lag is a pain-in-the-arse, and my experience is with a small and quite quick spooling turbo. If you're trying to do any sort of precise performance driving then trying to anticipate how early to feed in power to budget for turbo lag is something one has to learn (and I've never quite got it right). Turbo is almost like an on/off switch, and you don't know exactly when it's going to come on.

Turbos also create bigger under-bonnet heat problems than superchargers. The way I use my 86, I'm at the limit for managing heat now, and probably need to do some mods soon in that regard. A turbo 86 would need serious heat management IMO.

To me, a supercharger is linear, much less dramatic, more predictable, and in most scenarios other than the WOW sensation - it's lekker, but...

My next car, which would I choose? Hell, I actually don't know...
Maybe one of each because they're both great.

Thanks, my issue with the turbo option is that I can't find anyone here that specialises for the 86 like RGM and RMS for SCs.

Have you personally experienced any issues with your car since you've SCed it? I know RGM SC does not void warranty on the BRZ and currently they are busy with Toyota doing stability tests on an 86. They are doing 100 000km with RGM SC within 3-6 months (I can't remember exactly the time period). I am hoping they can come to something similar with the Toyota warranty.

[Fish Eagle]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Thanks, my issue with the turbo option is that I can't find anyone here that specialises for the 86 like RGM and RMS for SCs.

Have you personally experienced any issues with your car since you've SCed it? I know RGM SC does not void warranty on the BRZ and currently they are busy with Toyota doing stability tests on an 86. They are doing 100 000km with RGM SC within 3-6 months (I can't remember exactly the time period). I am hoping they can come to something similar with the Toyota warranty.

No issues after 15000 kms with SC.
I'm happy as a pig in poop

Sorry for the long story earlier.
You did ask why SC is more popular - in my roundabout way I was trying to answer that...

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Fish Eagle

No issues after 15000 kms with SC.
I'm happy as a pig in poop

Sorry for the long story earlier.
You did ask why SC is more popular - in my roundabout way I was trying to answer that...

I am glad to hear it is reliable . Perhaps I can get more info at the dyno day at schalks conversion on Saturday if I go.

[Suddenly...]

I have been looking into the options available from across the pond for quite a while now. There are so many kits available, many of which look similar and make very similar numbers.

The main points that I have looked at so far are:

The SC is much more linear, and a simpler product to "set and forget"
The TC option is able to make bigger power with supporting mods but requires better tuning in order to get it just right (from what I have read)
Out of all the TC kits I have looked into, each one has up sides and down sides, such as having to cut into the crash beam at the front of the car in order to run IC piping in some cases.
Also, some of the kits use slim fans which a few members have said tend to give up and in some cases have been shown to melt.

In terms of local offerings I don't know of any TC options currently, although I have been looking around.

I'll just throw it out there if anyone is interested, but if we decide on one particular kit, perhaps a group buy could work, as it would decrease the overall shipping costs involved. Just an idea but it is something to think about.

Personally I will be going SC on my car, even though the TC options are definitely tempting (that punch from a turbo is a great feeling). The lower overall temps swayed me.

I also have an auto, which means the SC should put less stress on the trans (Also going from what I have read)

Sorry for the long reply. I have been doing A LOT of reading on TC and SC for the past few months.

Hope that helps, and if not, sorry for the long reply

[Jacques Blom]

So here is the Turbo Man. .. my view is where and what is your plan. I build my car in mind for bigger power and fun on the track. ...The SC limites a bit if you are planning to play with the machanics...eg higer boost, injector and internal changes..so here the Turbo give you more options..

If you planning to run more mild have a smooth drive Sc is better..

on reliability .I ran my setup for 10 000 km now not an issue.. Hight in power and have enought Tourque... it is matter of drive style and Tunning is key. I also installed a electronic boost controler and that keeps my boost in reserve between shitfts so boost lag is not even an issue..

Sound wise.. play wise.. love the Turbo. .Greddy kit is a bolt on with all the needed pluming.. easy to install..My car is this month in Speed and Sound.. since then I installed Ecutect and the tunning is smooth.

Happy thinking. .each setup has its place and it is a matter of where and what is your customisation appetite..

[FT_86_SM_GP]

Originally Posted by Jacques Blom

My car is this month in Speed and Sound.. since then I installed Ecutect and the tunning is smooth.

Your ride is insane! Im a Fan! Lol, You should post a seperate Thread to celebrate your build... with pics (If you have time).

[Ryan86]

Modifying a car comes with its headaches, choose a supplier that can do your install and carry full waranty on software and hardware.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Suddenly...

I have been looking into the options available from across the pond for quite a while now. There are so many kits available, many of which look similar and make very similar numbers.

The main points that I have looked at so far are:

The SC is much more linear, and a simpler product to "set and forget"
The TC option is able to make bigger power with supporting mods but requires better tuning in order to get it just right (from what I have read)
Out of all the TC kits I have looked into, each one has up sides and down sides, such as having to cut into the crash beam at the front of the car in order to run IC piping in some cases.
Also, some of the kits use slim fans which a few members have said tend to give up and in some cases have been shown to melt.

In terms of local offerings I don't know of any TC options currently, although I have been looking around.

I'll just throw it out there if anyone is interested, but if we decide on one particular kit, perhaps a group buy could work, as it would decrease the overall shipping costs involved. Just an idea but it is something to think about.

Personally I will be going SC on my car, even though the TC options are definitely tempting (that punch from a turbo is a great feeling). The lower overall temps swayed me.

I also have an auto, which means the SC should put less stress on the trans (Also going from what I have read)

Sorry for the long reply. I have been doing A LOT of reading on TC and SC for the past few months.

Hope that helps, and if not, sorry for the long reply

Thanks this was really helpful and it is confirming my interpretation between the two.

Clearly if you are serious about getting a lot of power you need to go turbo but then you have a lot more mods that are needed and maybe more headaches. I don't need more at the moment because getting my TRD kit right was a huge pain and so was the exhaust tips. Trying to find more information about local TCs companies is also proving troublesome .
@Jacques Blom : I recon I would go more mild because I don't want too much hassle. If possible I would like to do it in baby steps. Did you have to upgrade your clutch from stock and did you do the build yourself? I haven't seen any company doing GReddy installs. I will have to have a look at your ride in speed and sound .
@Ryan86: I have read you've gone with RMS SC, have you had any reliability problems? I have looked at the issues on the owners thread for the innovate SC but it was a quick glance. RMS would also be the most convenient route for me since I am based in Centurion and I have met the guys as well.

As I mentioned I won't be doing anything soon. I need to plan for this so I am trying to get as much information as possible. Having a reputable company with a lot of experience with a guarantee on their work is definitely a plus.

[Ryan86]

I was about to import the Innovate SC, when RMS offered me a SC from Sprintex, so I opted to buy from him as I thought being local would be better.
I've have done the install and tuning on my own, have not used RMS.

I've had my fair share of problems, but that comes with modifying a car and wanting more.

A wise man told me (Sav) you want a fast car buy one, otherwise enjoy this car for what it's designed.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ryan86

I was about to import the Innovate SC, when RMS offered me a SC from Sprintex, so I opted to buy from him as I thought being local would be better.
I've have done the install and tuning on my own, have not used RMS.

I've had my fair share of problems, but that comes with modifying a car and wanting more.

A wise man told me (Sav) you want a fast car buy one, otherwise enjoy this car for what it's designed.

Is the innovate SC the same as the sprintex, it is just called differently in some parts of the world?

[sav]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Is the innovate SC the same as the sprintex, it is just called differently in some parts of the world?

Yyep, same thing.