Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[gramicci101]

So, question.

Volks are forged. Gram Lights are flow form cast. Advans do both. Mach V Awesomes are flow form cast. Some of the cheaper wheels are low pressure or gravity cast. Some manufacturers have proprietary casting methods.

Obviously gravity cast is the worst, or least good, but among the forged and flow formed wheels is there really a better manufacturing technique that one should lean towards when selecting a wheel for hard usage such as racing?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

So, question.

Volks are forged. Gram Lights are flow form cast. Advans do both. Mach V Awesomes are flow form cast. Some of the cheaper wheels are low pressure or gravity cast. Some manufacturers have proprietary casting methods.

Obviously gravity cast is the worst, or least good, but among the forged and flow formed wheels is there really a better manufacturing technique that one should lean towards when selecting a wheel for hard usage such as racing?

Flow formed is an attempt to gain certain properties of a forged product but at a fraction of the manufacturing cost. The key is in the manufacturing process and the cost of tooling. Forging is quite a bit more extensive and the machining process after the pound-ing state is equally as important as the forging process. As you go up the echelon of wheels, each process of manufacturing a wheel is more meticulous with more effort on quality control. In fact, high end flow formed wheels are pretty good, but the result is a much heavier wheel to achieve the same level of strength, rigidity, and engineering modes that you can achieve from a forged product. And yes, failure is always engineered into every wheel.

The lower end of the casting world will allow imperfections to fly and cut out quality control implementation that are in between each process. Something that may require 10 steps for a quality wheel is dropped to 5 steps on a budget setup. As a result, you could be receiving wheels that could have been rejected by a top tier company, but is drop through the cracks in a low end company.

Again...manufacturing is key. Engineering products ain't easy!

With that said, out of all the cast wheels I've driven on, NT03+m is THE ONLY cast wheel that has been downright difficult to bend. But again...anything is possible...LOL!


I can also talk about forging and foundry processes too, but that's just going to rub certain people the wrong way.

[7thgear]

how about speedline wheels? From my understanding they are nearly indestructible.. but pay for it by being heavy.

[fooddude]

Why do some supposedly, higher end, better brand, "flow formed" jdm wheels crack still? Like gramlights, etc.

Idk if saying "RPF1s only bend, while Rotas will always crack" is absolutely true ....I've seen several pics of cracked Enkeis...and also bent Rotas.

Sure doesn't look like "bending" to me, and more like cracking.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Why do some supposedly, higher end, better brand, "flow formed" jdm wheels crack still? Like gramlights, etc.

Idk if saying "RPF1s only bend, while Rotas will always crack" is absolutely true ....I've seen several pics of cracked Enkeis...and also bent Rotas.

Sure doesn't look like "bending" to me, and more like cracking.

That is a result of a suspension arm shearing off and cutting into the wheel. When that happens, I think you have more issues than just a wheel failure...

If you impact something hard enough such as steel to aluminum contact, it will fail. In terms of shearing something, the face of the wheel will crack through catastrophically.


Remember the idea of stuff cracking or failing on a low end wheel also creates this idea that high end wheels will suffer from the same issues. This results in putting a bad reputation to companies who actually put in the effort to develop wheels properly. If you support the low end mark and see how wheels fail, then most people will automatically assume wheels are just dispensable so there is no reason to buy properly engineered wheels. The guys who suffer are the guys who put in the effort to do things right. With that said, the analogy holds true as to why you got ** coilover brand claiming their stuff is just as good as JRZ stuff, etc. It's just a perpetual cycle of sloppiness that is positively reinforced.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

...among the forged and flow formed wheels is there really a better manufacturing technique that one should lean towards when selecting a wheel for hard usage such as racing?

Forged. Go to the paddock of a pro race and look at what wheels are on the cars. One team told me they get years out of their forged wheels, and the cast wheels they used to run wouldn't hold up for anywhere near a full 12-14 race season. You'll see lots of BBS on race cars. Volks are there, too.

All that said, I've put over a hundred days at the track on a race car across three sets of D-Force wheels (aka Mach V Awesome) - without the slightest flaw ever appearing. For the price, the weight, and the service life for regular drivers at the track, I think those wheels are a terrific value.

When it comes to potholes and other things you encounter off the track, it wouldn't make sense to run anything you cared about where I live.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Everybody laughs at me for bringing a bike pump. I'm also the guy everybody asks to borrow the bike pump to pump up their tires after the track day.

See. I solved the obesity problem already.

Which pump do you use? I'm on amazon and there are obviously tons available.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Malt

Which pump do you use? I'm on amazon and there are obviously tons available.

Some Joe Blow model I got from Performance Bikes over a decade ago. It still works well.

[gabe0807]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Some Joe Blow model I got from Performance Bikes over a decade ago. It still works well.

I'm a long time mountain bike guy, and the Topeak Joe Blow floor pumps are actually great pumps. If it was an unintentional selection, you lucked out.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by gabe0807

I'm a long time mountain bike guy, and the Topeak Joe Blow floor pumps are actually great pumps. If it was an unintentional selection, you lucked out.

I got sick of replacing bike pumps as a kid. I mean...a bike pump would be great after a few tires and basketball pumps then bam...it was dead. After spending on a few bike pumps, I figure I should have just bought a nicer one to begin with. It sure paid off...it helps me pump car tires now!!!

[fooddude]

Wow...never knew bike pumps work for cars. I always thought the weight of the car would make it not work. What are typical bike tire pressure anyways? I forget since I haven't had a bike since I was a kid.

[jvincent]

Bike pressures can be 100+ PSI. Cars are a measly 35-40.

I always pump my car tires with the bike pump. The gauge is accurate and it takes only a few pumps depending on how much air the car tire needs.

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Forged. Go to the paddock of a pro race and look at what wheels are on the cars. One team told me they get years out of their forged wheels, and the cast wheels they used to run wouldn't hold up for anywhere near a full 12-14 race season. You'll see lots of BBS on race cars. Volks are there, too.

All that said, I've put over a hundred days at the track on a race car across three sets of D-Force wheels (aka Mach V Awesome) - without the slightest flaw ever appearing. For the price, the weight, and the service life for regular drivers at the track, I think those wheels are a terrific value.

When it comes to potholes and other things you encounter off the track, it wouldn't make sense to run anything you cared about where I live.

^

Just did the thompson event with bmw cca, I almost thought it was a requirement to have the dforce wheel considering all the cars on them.

[fooddude]

Cool! Me want to buy one now!