Open Letter to Potential FR-S Buyers & Disillusioned Owners

[P86RAVES]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

The FR-S is definitely not a stoplight warrior. Our car is for the fast driver, the car is not fast by itself and it is a mix of people that are willing to forgo their warranty in the pursuit of more power. We have a different kind of immaturity - the one that wants to speed up for corners. When one buys an FR-S, it is for driving enjoyment of pure handling that cannot be found for the same price point (Miata comes close).

Originally Posted by yoitsrob

Forget what Top Gear, Hot Version, or anyone else says...Just go test drive the car and figure out for yourself if you want it. I sold my more powerful, 9000 redlining RX-8 for one of these and haven't regretted it since.

The RX-8 best relates to this car, more so than the Miata. If you read through this thread you'll see many points RX-8 enthusiast make in reference to why the RX-8 is a good car vs it's natural competition (the S2000, 350Z, and E46 3er).

People keep thinking power is about going strait and 1/4 speed, and that it has nothing to do with corners. That's narrow. Any STi or Evo madman can tell you about power and corners, and about how much fun it is to rip into and out of them.

In the end this cars spiritual successor isn't a Porsche or a AWD rally-bred machine. It wasn't benchmarked against a SR20DET powered 240SX or even an SW20. It's ancestor wasn't some tech wizardry 3000GT(GTO) or 300ZX. It wasn't even the gorgeous rolling grip-machine that is the RX7.

A RWD Corolla is what this car's heritage is. A 112 HP commuter box that became a thing of legend because of what people did with it, not because of what it was from the factory. ...the first thing people think about when they think hachi-roku is this:



Not this:




There you have this car and the sentiment about it in a nutshell. The car that was, and the car people are thinking about.

In a sense, this car is not the sports team captain nor the president of the computer club. It was the pimply, skinny kid with the skateboard that told a great story and made people feel good when they were around. He's a guy only retold the amazing stories about because it's all they can remember about him. This new kid, the new 8-6, is his descendant.

Toyota gave us a beautifully bound book titled, "The Legend of Hachi-Roku II" In it are countless blank, unnumbered pages... a space to be filled by us, the owners. Write the stories that will be retold.

[Davey]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Curious why you've eliminated the middle ground of modding it moderately and enjoying driving it as it was meant to be driven. I've done very minor mods to mine (Perrin CBE, tires/wheels, brake pads, fluid) and am enjoying the hell out of it, especially on track.

Yes, the Jackson Racing superchargers seems well-engineered, doesn't really require any additional upgrades @250 whp or around 300 chp, add some light wheels/sticky tires and an oil cooler and... ??? I think I would be plenty happy with that if it will hold together, which, thus far it seems to be relatively trouble-free.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Davey

Yes, the Jackson Racing superchargers seems well-engineered, doesn't really require any additional upgrades @250 whp or around 300 chp, add some light wheels/sticky tires and an oil cooler and... ??? I think I would be plenty happy with that if it will hold together, which, thus far it seems to be relatively trouble-free.

Agreed, if I were to go FI, it would likely be the JRSC for the reasons you mentioned. I would probably add brakes to the list of necessary mods though, at least for track work.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

The RX-8 best relates to this car, more so than the Miata. If you read through this thread you'll see many points RX-8 enthusiast make in reference to why the RX-8 is a good car vs it's natural competition (the S2000, 350Z, and E46 3er).

People keep thinking power is about going strait and 1/4 speed, and that it has nothing to do with corners. That's narrow. Any STi or Evo madman can tell you about power and corners, and about how much fun it is to rip into and out of them.

In the end this cars spiritual successor isn't a Porsche or a AWD rally-bred machine. It wasn't benchmarked against a SR20DET powered 240SX or even an SW20. It's ancestor wasn't some tech wizardry 3000GT(GTO) or 300ZX. It wasn't even the gorgeous rolling grip-machine that is the RX7.

A RWD Corolla is what this car's heritage is. A 112 HP commuter box that became a thing of legend because of what people did with it, not because of what it was from the factory. ...the first thing people think about when they think hachi-roku is this:



Not this:




There you have this car and the sentiment about it in a nutshell. The car that was, and the car people are thinking about.

In a sense, this car is not the sports team captain nor the president of the computer club. It was the pimply, skinny kid with the skateboard that told a great story and made people feel good when they were around. He's a guy only retold the amazing stories about because it's all they can remember about him. This new kid, the new 8-6, is his descendant.

Toyota gave us a beautifully bound book titled, "The Legend of Hachi-Roku II" In it are countless blank, unnumbered pages... a space to be filled by us, the owners. Write the stories that will be retold.

I agree with the sentiment, although, the new 8-6 is a little more athletic and way more attractive from the factory than its predecessor. Just my opinion. Like some other things, everyone has one.

[Tromatic]

<Sarcasm>I find it hard to believe that a car that was 25K more expensive to start with would be a better car than a 25k less expensive car that had 25k worth of parts bolted on.</Sarcasm>

LOL so hard I sharted at some of the 50K FR-S/BRZ's that at the end of the day are still based on a cheap-ass car.

[e-d.]

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

The RX-8 best relates to this car, more so than the Miata. If you read through this thread you'll see many points RX-8 enthusiast make in reference to why the RX-8 is a good car vs it's natural competition (the S2000, 350Z, and E46 3er).

People keep thinking power is about going strait and 1/4 speed, and that it has nothing to do with corners. That's narrow. Any STi or Evo madman can tell you about power and corners, and about how much fun it is to rip into and out of them.

In the end this cars spiritual successor isn't a Porsche or a AWD rally-bred machine. It wasn't benchmarked against a SR20DET powered 240SX or even an SW20. It's ancestor wasn't some tech wizardry 3000GT(GTO) or 300ZX. It wasn't even the gorgeous rolling grip-machine that is the RX7.

A RWD Corolla is what this car's heritage is. A 112 HP commuter box that became a thing of legend because of what people did with it, not because of what it was from the factory. ...the first thing people think about when they think hachi-roku is this:



Not this:




There you have this car and the sentiment about it in a nutshell. The car that was, and the car people are thinking about.

In a sense, this car is not the sports team captain nor the president of the computer club. It was the pimply, skinny kid with the skateboard that told a great story and made people feel good when they were around. He's a guy only retold the amazing stories about because it's all they can remember about him. This new kid, the new 8-6, is his descendant.

Toyota gave us a beautifully bound book titled, "The Legend of Hachi-Roku II" In it are countless blank, unnumbered pages... a space to be filled by us, the owners. Write the stories that will be retold.

Originally Posted by Demandred7

I agree with the sentiment, although, the new 8-6 is a little more athletic and way more attractive from the factory than its predecessor. Just my opinion. Like some other things, everyone has one.

definitely more attractive, but no one can hate a classic

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I have to admit, I don't really see the point of this thread. People bought this car for whatever reason (looks, handling, feedback, glowing reviews, etc.) But ultimately, it's a niche car among niche cars. Having owned the car, if an owner wants to sell it and move on, that's their decision. It's not the right car for everyone and that's fine. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

I guess he is trying to help people save time and money.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

I guess he is trying to help people save time and money.

Yeah it sort of makes sense for potential buyers who haven't bought the car yet, but as directed towards current owners, I don't think you can convince anyone to be happy with their purchase. They either are or aren't.

[GreenMonster]

I drove a few Ford Pintos back in the day, so I'm ok with an "underpowered" commuter shitbox as long as it's RWD

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

A RWD Corolla is what this car's heritage is. A 112 HP commuter box that became a thing of legend because of what people did with it, not because of what it was from the factory. ..

[blackhawkdown]

So after reading the whole 7 pages and each comment, I have come to the conclusion that the twins is awesome on the track and not all that in daily driving. That people are buying the twins because they fell for the hype of the car and expected it to perform on the streets like the track but found out it the car was slow in the streets. That people had buyers remorse and should of bought a more compromised car that would of tickle their pickle. And then there are people here who have no problem spending $10k worth of mods to be as fast as $35k cars like the STi, Evo, Mustangs, and the lot. And then there are the people who says putting FI into the car ruins the whole point of the car.

Am I forgetting anything? Anyways, I understand the OP and why he did what he did. My wife says that I will probably be not happy because it doesn't have a Turbo and is slow. She says I will probably be happier with a STi. I totally agree with her on this but the BRZ is one of those cars that is "rare" in its market. It's an affordable cheap fun sports car and that is something I want no matter if it doesn't have a turbo. I hope I don't get buyers remorse. Have to wait until I come back to the states, just a few more months.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

So after reading the whole 7 pages and each comment, I have come to the conclusion that the twins is awesome on the track and not all that in daily driving. That people are buying the twins because they fell for the hype of the car and expected it to perform on the streets like the track but found out it the car was slow in the streets. That people had buyers remorse and should of bought a more compromised car that would of tickle their pickle.

If you asked most people what their ideal street car would be, you'd probably end up with a list like this:

- lots of torque and power (for stoplight drags or highway pulls)
- looks good
- comfortable
- practical
- refined/expensive interior
- "sporty" handling

If you look over that list, the FR-S/BRZ really only checks one of those boxes.

If you've got a similar definition of an ideal street car, then you'll end up disliking the Twins. Something like a 335i or tuned GTI would fit the bill perfectly.

Then there are some people who value a completely different set of qualities for a daily/street car, something like:

- good feedback
- lightweight and nimble handling
- quick steering
- excellent seating position
- rewards driving skill (e.g., requires frequent downshifts and correct inputs in corners)
- ability to utilize its meager power most of the time
- looks good
- somewhat practical
- good gas mileage

If those are the kind of traits you're looking for, you'll enjoy the Twins. As a bonus, they're awesome at track days as well.

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Then there are some people who value a completely different set of qualities for a daily/street car, something like:

- good feedback
- lightweight and nimble handling
- quick steering
- excellent seating position
- rewards driving skill (e.g., requires frequent downshifts and correct inputs in corners)
- ability to utilize its meager power most of the time
- looks good
- somewhat practical
- good gas mileage

If those are the kind of traits you're looking for, you'll enjoy the Twins. As a bonus, they're awesome at track days as well.

that's what i am looking for. got the wrx for the other.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

that's what i am looking for. got the wrx for the other.

Sounds like you'll enjoy the BRZ then. Just be ready to field questions from people in the other group who might not understand the appeal.

[Annahra]

Okay, so the problem is, this is really a girl's car. I'm 5'4" and the seat fits me perfectly; the steering wheel/pedals are perfect for my reach; the seat belt doesn't rub; I can fit it anywhere because it's tiny; it's easy for me to wash because it's short; I get lots of attention while driving it; I don't have to worry about beating muscle cars in a straight line because guys usually just compliment me on the car and don't try to pull on me. If it won't fit, it's probably more than I want to haul anyway. No kids so no real backseat required. Oh yeah and the gas mileage is fabulous. So problem solved: if you bought the car and don't like it, it's probably because you are a guy!