UNDERPOWERED? THE REAL DEAL!!!

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by FRSpappa

And starts at $52,600! Apples to oranges my friend...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You said nothing about price. Furthermore, one can find a used 1st gen Cayman S for the same price as a BRZ or less.

any car that was ever considered "driving nirvana" has had low HP numbers

This is simply an untrue statement.

I have a legitimate rebuttal for every post that followed mine, but I won't even bother.

Because you know you're wrong.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by paulca

Give a car way too much power and you'll never be able to use it in a corner or you'll upset the balance and the cars handling will be affected. It may become snappy or loose. It may in fact, even in capable hands, end up slower in the corners.

How much does a turbo or charger kit weigh? That will be, no doubt, 100kg(?) added to the front end. That will effect the balance, like having someone sitting on the bonnet. More weight at the front, more power at the back, what could possibly go wrong?

I agree with a majority of your post, but you can't be honestly suggesting that an 86 with ~300 whp from an added turbo system will be slower than stock around a track, especially with an expert behind the wheel. Wheels and tires would certainly need to be upgraded in that case, but we have more than enough room under our wheel arches.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by driftartist

what im saying is that neither him or myself was telling you or anyone else how to treat their own car. we were saying that the car is meant from the factory to be what it is a simple balanced entry level car. you can do what you want to it and i will do what i want with it...but the vision of the car was just that... balance. the supra the nsx the rx7 meant for a little more higher end performance, what im saying is if you want more performance it is recommended to not settle on an entry level platform, instead find a platform more suited to your power needs that is all. sure you can mod your frs and make it plenty fast but for those expecting more than it is out the gates then thats another story. but i can see you are one whose mind is clouded by your own voice and opinion so i end with a "best wises to you" no harm no foul. i will let you be.

No problem,agree to disagree makes the world interesting
I still interpret comments like those above as statements of opinion that are being positioned as absolute fact but something may be lost in the translation. Your second statement is very presumptuous almost an insult like your initial comment but I would ask you to read my initial comments in this thread before passing judgment.

Post 76:

I love the entertainment value of these threads. I'm right and you're wrong has no place in this conversation. To me, this car is brilliant and one of the most enjoyable drives period. Kinda like your favorite pair of jeans. However it can be modded to personal taste WITHOUT sacrificing one attribute for another. If acceleration is not important to you then leave the motor alone. If you like the playfull nature of the stock handling opposed to serious lateral grip then keep the stock tires and suspension. It's all about what you value in a car and these cars are the rare breed that can be many things to many people.

As opposed to comments such as these; clearly extolling one person's opinion upon others even if it wasn't the intent of the author:

If you want more power, buy a car that's built for power

any car that was ever considered "driving nirvana" has had low HP numbers.

[FRSpappa]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

You said nothing about price. Furthermore, one can find a used 1st gen Cayman S for the same price as a BRZ or less.

Price is a big part of this cars charm and if they continue to make it I doubt the price will stay the same. I was looking for a DD / Track car and this was the only one that filled the bill for me. I considered a Corvette C5 Z06, which BTW annihilates the Cayman IMO, but at about $30k with no warranty passed...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DarkSunrise]

The new vs. used comparisons are always a slippery slope. People usually decide early on whether they want the reliability/warranty/feel of a new car or whether they're willing to take the chance with a used car. Trying to discredit a new FR-S because you can buy a 7 yo significantly-depreciated Cayman S for the same price is a bit disingenuous to me.

It makes much more sense to compare new v. new, and used v. used. For example, you can get a used Lotus Elise for the price of a Cayman S and have a car that's even more sharp and driver-focused, if that's your ultimate goal.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The new vs. used comparisons are always a slippery slope...

Well, actually, since GT86s have been running around US roadways for about two years now, for price comparisons, doesn't it make a bit more sense to compare USED to USED? You can get a low mileage CPO BRZ/FR-S for less than $20k, including a warranty that is comparable to (in some cases even better than) the standard new Toyota/Subaru package. If financing, warranty and resale aren't big deals -- e.g., where fairly extensive mods, serious autocrossing and/or track time are planned -- it's not too challenging to chase down a trivially dinged, well-repaired salvage titled Scibaru (Subota?) for about half the price of a new one. Also: is there anyone here who seriously believes that the cost of long-term ownership (i.e., maintenance and repair) of a Porsche, Lotus or BMW is going to be comparable to that of a Scion or Subaru?

[xxBrun0xx]

Wow, things really escalated quickly in this thread. Think the bottom line is this: If you're happy with the power, that's great, enjoy it. If not, boost it or buy something else. Not everything is for everyone.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by FRSpappa

I considered a Corvette C5 Z06, which BTW annihilates the Cayman IMO

On a track, yes. At being a great driver's car, absolutely not. C5s have terrible steering feel. The Z06 is no exception.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Trying to discredit a new FR-S because you can buy a 7 yo significantly-depreciated Cayman S for the same price is a bit disingenuous to me.

I'm not trying to discredit the 86 at all. I did in fact buy a new BRZ over a used Cayman S. But it is a real decision that people might consider. In fact, if this wasn't my daily driver, I might have gone the other way. I was simply calling out someone who made the ridiculous statement, "Like I said before, any car that was ever considered "driving nirvana" has had low HP numbers," and then tried to bring cost into it when most great driver's cars are on the expensive side to begin with.

[D88]

Originally Posted by xxBrun0xx

Wow, things really escalated quickly in this thread. Think the bottom line is this: If you're happy with the power, that's great, enjoy it. If not, boost it or buy something else. Not everything is for everyone.

This is, quite honestly, your only options. I don't think any more has to be said.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by D88

This is, quite honestly, your only options. I don't think any more has to be said.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

I'm not trying to discredit the 86 at all. I did in fact buy a new BRZ over a used Cayman S. But it is a real decision that people might consider. In fact, if this wasn't my daily driver, I might have gone the other way. I was simply calling out someone who made the ridiculous statement, "Like I said before, any car that was ever considered "driving nirvana" has had low HP numbers," and then tried to bring cost into it when most great driver's cars are on the expensive side to begin with.

That statement wasn't directed at you necessarily. It was directed more generally at people who make comments about how it makes no sense to buy an FR-S when you can buy a used Cayman S for the same price. Or that the FR-S is poor value compared to X used car. In other words, the used vs. new comparison.

To me, what you can buy used has no bearing on the value of a new FR-S. One is used, the other is new. That's an apples to oranges comparison that overlooks the real risks and costs in buying used that go beyond the purchase price. Someone might choose between a used Cayman S vs. new FR-S, for example, but it makes no sense to make the statement that a new X car is poor value because you can buy a used Y car for the same price.

[Mooseknuckle44]

At first, l was dead set on FI for this car as l came thru my early 20's in V8 muscle cars(98 T/A and 06 GTO.) Even my current DD and ex family car(2000 Maxima) will toast the 86. But after running the Micro Machine(FRS) thru the Dragons Tail l found that she's got plenty of power for fun. I do think around 200 hp to the ground and the right suspension/tires would make this car nearly perfect. I no longer want FI. Just full exhaust, a good tune, and some weight reduction. In a straight line she's ridiculously underpowered imo. But l've kept up with crotch rockets in the mountains. This car was my crotch rocket replacement. So l'm happier everyday now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jwSubMOA]

I have a 13 Brz limited WRB auto. Stock it was very fun to drive. With addition of uel header, perrin intake and complete catless exhaust, mild tune and better tires it is phenomenal! Yes it is not the fastest car out there but so? I have a built Corrado making 300 hp, a 928 Porsche pushing nearly 400 hp and my 2012 Silverado WHEELCHAIR TRUCK with Whipplecharged 408 stroker making no shit 789 hp at the wheels. Not one of them is remotely as much fun to drive as my BRZ.