How satisfied are you with your FR-S/BRZ?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm at high RPM on the track all the time and on tracks with any decent straightaway the damn car needs more power.

What have you done power-wise to it?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

What have you done power-wise to it?

Nothing. Well an axleback and intake, so nothing except noise to hear the engine with a helmet on.

As a point of comparison my stock (completely except for a missing intake resonator) 170bhp Integra walks those same Miatas at Sebring. The Integra weighs a bit less though. Based on GPS data it's about 10-15mph higher terminal speeds on the back straight and the BRZ exits 5-6mph faster from T16.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Nothing. Well an axleback and intake, so nothing except noise to hear the engine with a helmet on.

As a point of comparison my stock (completely except for a missing intake resonator) 170bhp Integra walks those same Miatas at Sebring. The Integra weighs a bit less though. Based on GPS data it's about 10-15mph higher terminal speeds on the back straight and the BRZ exits 5-6mph faster from T16.

If you want to stay NA, you could look at a setup like @ATL BRZ has on his car. He's running a flex fuel kit, E85, full exhaust, and an aggressive tune, and getting about 200 hp at the wheels.

The only thing I've done power-wise is an OFT stage 1, but even that is a tremendous improvement. It pulls cleanly all the way up to redline now; there's no, or very minimal, dip in torque anymore. Once I go to header and stage 2, it'll just get better. I'm going to do the Crawford intake manifold spacers, just because I use my car for DD, so I want to push the peak torque and hp to a lower RPM range where I spend more time. That may not be ideal for a track car, because you spend all your time at 6-7.4K RPM anyways.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you want to stay NA, you could look at a setup like @ATL BRZ has on his car. He's running a flex fuel kit, E85, full exhaust, and an aggressive tune, and getting about 200 hp at the wheels.

Almost full. Still running the stock mid pipe. Everything else is 2.5".

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you want to stay NA, you could look at a setup like @ATL BRZ has on his car. He's running a flex fuel kit, E85, full exhaust, and an aggressive tune, and getting about 200 hp at the wheels.

The only thing I've done power-wise is an OFT stage 1, but even that is a tremendous improvement. It pulls cleanly all the way up to redline now; there's no, or very minimal, dip in torque anymore. Once I go to header and stage 2, it'll just get better. I'm going to do the Crawford intake manifold spacers, just because I use my car for DD, so I want to push the peak torque and hp to a lower RPM range where I spend more time. That may not be ideal for a track car, because you spend all your time at 6-7.4K RPM anyways.

Can't get E85 here, at least last I checked, unless I were military. Otherwise it's a 45 minute drive for gas.. which basically means there is no chance in hell I'd ever consider it

Having to modify a 200bhp car to be as fast as a 14 year old 170bhp car does seem silly

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Having to modify a 200bhp car to be as fast as a 14 year old 170bhp car does seem silly

It does, but you know better than I that a whole lot comes down to drivetrain loss and vehicle weight. And a 2000 GS-R can be stripped down to be super light, if it's a pure track car. And modding is fun and makes for a more enjoyable car!

Here's a dyno graph for a vehicle with a header, catback, Crawford BPB, and tune making 188 WHP on 93 octane. That's not even extensive, as far as mods go.



From this thread.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm at high RPM on the track all the time and on tracks with any decent straightaway the damn car needs more power. it doesn't need 400hp. It just needs a little more, but when a f$cking spec miata PULLS on my on the back straight at sebring when I had higher exit speeds (based on data logging) then the damn car needs more power lol

Overall my opinion of the twins is that they are great drivers cars. I don't use mine anymore because the M3 is simply a better daily driver in every way except fuel economy and the track car has full safety gear where the BRZ doesn't. Moving cars to get the BRZ out of the garage is more hassle than it's worth for occasional weekend drives. If I didn't have the M3 I'd still be DD'ing the BRZ and enjoying it though. I really need to stop buying cars with similar characteristics.

I'm at the point where I either need to sell the M3 and do a NA build of the BRZ (or just his the easy button and boost it) or sell the BRZ and get something completely different (vintage probably..). The BRZ's biggest cons IMO are the power/torque dip and the less than bulletproof reliability we've seen so far. The trans is good (not perfect but good), the engine is mostly shit in stock form, the interior is very good for the price point of the car IMO, the steering is fantastic, and the chassis is pretty damn good too. Brakes are decent but I don't run the stock fronts anymore anyways.

LOL, I have the same problem. I'll be selling the BRZ to get a Forester as my DD. Need something a little more practical for the snow, and I'm getting too lazy to shift gears.

Will probably just the use the ITR as a weekend/track toy.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

It does, but you know better than I that a whole lot comes down to drivetrain loss and vehicle weight. And a 2000 GS-R can be stripped down to be super light, if it's a pure track car. And modding is fun and makes for a more enjoyable car!

Here's a dyno graph for a vehicle with a header, catback, Crawford BPB, and tune making 188 WHP on 93 octane. That's not even extensive, as far as mods go.



From this thread.

Mine is mid 2500s IIRC with gas. Weight was removed for sure but it still has AC, Audio, ABS and has a rollbar to add weight back in.

Modding can be fun, but after almost 2 decades of it it's a bit old. I'm lazy even wtih a lift and AC in the garage.

It really comes down to having too many cars that are similar. There is no perfect car IMO but I've made the poor choice to pick cars that are too similar which makes at least one of them redundant. And sadly, I don't trust the BRZ for track use or long trips anymore than teh M3 haha

[gramicci101]

I can say after driving my BRZ from Delaware to Las Vegas, it is a wonderful car for long trips! As long as you're the only one in the car and don't mind the suspension, that is. My poor car got a big rock chip on the windshield though; I need to get that replaced.

What if you sold either the M3 or the BRZ and got a Cadillac CTS or something? Super plush and comfy for driving around daily. Or an Acura TL or similar.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I can say after driving my BRZ from Delaware to Las Vegas, it is a wonderful car for long trips! As long as you're the only one in the car and don't mind the suspension, that is. My poor car got a big rock chip on the windshield though; I need to get that replaced.

What if you sold either the M3 or the BRZ and got a Cadillac CTS or something? Super plush and comfy for driving around daily. Or an Acura TL or similar.

I think you misunderstood All of my cars have track pads, etc.. comfort isn't a priority.

It's more that it's pointless to have both cars. If I sell one I'll probably get something old (like 40-50 years old) so that removes comfort even more from the equation. Having to move the M3, then the lawnmower to get the BRZ out of the garage is too much work when the M3 does the DD role better (torques yo!).

I'm just indecisive as hell and don't consider either car to be that special. I'd sell both for a nice 69 GTO Judge and DD the track car haha

[gramicci101]

Get an '81 Porsche 911SC. Roll in classic style.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Get an '81 Porsche 911SC. Roll in classic style.

I'd want a G50 3.2 at least. I do enjoy those cars, rebuild a 83 SC, modified a RS America (964), some 914 stuff. I've looked at them on and off but are they really different enough from the other cars to bother with? Can't decide so far.

[AVodka14]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'm at high RPM on the track all the time and on tracks with any decent straightaway the damn car needs more power. it doesn't need 400hp. It just needs a little more, but when a f$cking spec miata PULLS on my on the back straight at sebring when I had higher exit speeds (based on data logging) then the damn car needs more power lol

Overall my opinion of the twins is that they are great drivers cars. I don't use mine anymore because the M3 is simply a better daily driver in every way except fuel economy and the track car has full safety gear where the BRZ doesn't. Moving cars to get the BRZ out of the garage is more hassle than it's worth for occasional weekend drives. If I didn't have the M3 I'd still be DD'ing the BRZ and enjoying it though. I really need to stop buying cars with similar characteristics.

I'm at the point where I either need to sell the M3 and do a NA build of the BRZ (or just his the easy button and boost it) or sell the BRZ and get something completely different (vintage probably..). The BRZ's biggest cons IMO are the power/torque dip and the less than bulletproof reliability we've seen so far. The trans is good (not perfect but good), the engine is mostly shit in stock form, the interior is very good for the price point of the car IMO, the steering is fantastic, and the chassis is pretty damn good too. Brakes are decent but I don't run the stock fronts anymore anyways.

Thanks for the response. Answer a couple of questions for me if you don't mind. Simply because I am curious and sounds like you have pushed the car more than I have.

1.) What specifics in terms of reliability? (i.e. engine)
2.) Why do you say the trans is good?
3.) What do you think about turbocharging this motor? I have heard mixed responses.

Torque dip is easily fixed with a tune/exhaust from I understand.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd want a G50 3.2 at least. I do enjoy those cars, rebuild a 83 SC, modified a RS America (964), some 914 stuff. I've looked at them on and off but are they really different enough from the other cars to bother with? Can't decide so far.

A '66-'77 Ford Bronco or an International Harvester Scout II? Or a Land Rover Defender 90? How different do you want to go here?