Motorweek: 2014 Scion TC > FRS

[ntron1]

I have many business friends who are automotive journalists, editors and publishers. When they found out I was looking at buying a BRZ, one of them, who is in his 70's and was a car of the year judge until 2012, said, your gonna love that car! That was the only opinion I needed.

[twag4]

I saw that. 0-60 time was slower than the FRS, longer braking distance, and they complained about the feel on turn in. They also complained about the high performance 19" tires on TRD wheels in the snow. So the tC is roomier and has a bigger cargo area in its hatchback. Who cares?!

[Deep Six]

I completely get the average consumer comparison perspective and why a TC might be a better choice. What makes no sense is how additional horsepower would change their minds unless they felt the FRS didn't measure up to the TC from a performance comparison.

[continuecrushing]

Man, I wish I had seen this motorweek episode before buying my frs

[chaoskaze]

Comon Guys, this shouldn't come as a surprise ok? As my gf said, she prefer mazda 3 or xb any time of the day. Hahahaha

[Weasel Soup]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Exactly why I don't watch these kind of shows or read any articles published by journalists who feel the need to share their opinion. They need to just give me the facts, because I honestly don't give a shit what they think.

Originally Posted by indesign

I find Motorweek isn't really geared towards the enthusiast, but rather to the masses. They emphasize mpg, cargo space, interior space, acceleration and braking distances. Their reviews will probably appeal most to the average consumer.

Originally Posted by speargunsandracecars

This is true in a sense. Enthusiasts are only a very small percentage of the whole automotive industry. Most people buy cars for MPG, or looks, luxury, value for the dollar, safety features, etc. Not 'feel' or 'fun'. To the average person, a car is just another appliance. I feel that Motorweek is the most objective automotive media that's out there. And they do cater to the average consumer. But this makes them boring as hell to watch.

Originally Posted by Shutter

I find the extremely bland, zero emotion hosts very very boring...

Like the Beverly Hills wife with too much botox, her face shows nothing, but she says she is actually very happy.

They show the hosts driving the car through a canyon, but they just give some bs, political explanation for what its like to drive the car.

I only watch it now if there is a car I'm really interested in

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think the FR-S is one of the best value buys in sports car history. It just depends what facts matter to you.

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, it is a stretch. Sorry, but the person who recommends a TC over an FR-S/BRZ is only doing so because of practicality which means they should not be cross-shopping the cars to begin with.

I really don't know what else to say.. The FT86 is just a whole different level of drivers car. The fact we are debating this is, frankly, ridiculous..

Originally Posted by ntron1

I have many business friends who are automotive journalists, editors and publishers. When they found out I was looking at buying a BRZ, one of them, who is in his 70's and was a car of the year judge until 2012, said, your gonna love that car! That was the only opinion I needed.

Not even every car enthusiast gets the twins. And they just aren't practicle cars for every person. Heck, between my first drive of a BRZ and my eventual purchase of my FR-S I owned two different cars. Partial blame for not getting the BRZ goes to the salesman, he seemed to be trying to convince me that it was a quicker 0-60 car than my old MS3....

I'm a person that sends 99% of my driving time as the only occupant of the car. When I go out driving for pleasure its to feel connected to every twist, turn, dip and rise in the flow of the road. I had a car that tried to just dominate the road, but wouldn't do what I asked it above 8/10ths (Golf R), and that car showed me I wanted a car like the 86. I know where to hunt the kinds of roads I like to drive and don't mind getting lost trying to find them, because that gives me more time behind the wheel to experience driving. I like to think most of the people who have one of our cars enjoy driving the same way I do, even if that's not the case.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think the FR-S is one of the best value buys in sports car history. It just depends what facts matter to you.

Originally Posted by Rampage

Really? I cannot see that. I would think that the FR-S would be one of the best value buys among sports cars in car history. For example, if you take inflation into consideration and then look at the Datsun 240Z, Fiat 124 Spider, all gens of the Miata, all gens of the MR2 and the Nissan 350Z, I think you will find the FR-S compares favorably with the 240Z and is actually cheaper than all those others that I listed in today's dollars. It also is more versatile because of the rear folding seat and big trunk. It handles as good or better than any of them. It is more powerful than all but one of them (for a base model). Factor in amenities such as power windows, stereo, air conditioning, etc. and it seems to me that as sports cars go it is a bargain.

Now, if you are comparing it to mundane people movers like the tC or my wife's Chevy Cruze then you are right. Feature for feature, the FR-S is way over priced. But I do not want to take my wife's Cruze or a tC and drive it on the Tail of the Dragon or the twisty roads in SE Ohio.

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, it is a stretch. Sorry, but the person who recommends a TC over an FR-S/BRZ is only doing so because of practicality which means they should not be cross-shopping the cars to begin with.

I really don't know what else to say.. The FT86 is just a whole different level of drivers car. The fact we are debating this is, frankly, ridiculous..

Originally Posted by Burrcold

So what are "the facts"?

relax guys. its my opinion as to why automotive journalism needs more art than science and requires more than just facts. someone said they dont want any opinions in journalism but how else do you describe the intangibles? its not so much my opinion on the twins. every one here has a very similar perspective. i can see how the tc is going to be sporty enough for more people while being a much more useful car. it kind of reminds me of a thing people say about miatas. the nb is the better car but the na is the better miata.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by fatoni

going by just the facts will show that the frs is one of the worst value buys in sports car history. i think the issue is finding journalists who share the same needs and viewpoints as yourself. the frs is more fun but its not really a stretch to say that the tc is the better car.

You talk about "facts" but later backpedal and cite your subjective tastes....hmm, ultimate flip-flopper

Then I read the above and it hits me....HOLY SHIT, now I know you are high or trolling, lol, LMAO...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

You talk about "facts" but later backpedal and cite your subjective tastes....hmm, ultimate flip-flopper

Then I read the above and it hits me....HOLY SHIT, now I know you are high or trolling, lol, LMAO...

or i was just responding to this post:

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

Exactly why I don't watch these kind of shows or read any articles published by journalists who feel the need to share their opinion. They need to just give me the facts, because I honestly don't give a shit what they think.

and then the forum blew the fuck up on me.

[swpbrz]

I had a tc for a few years. Its just a honda civic. No character compared to my brz.

There is a joe rogan podcast with matt farah. They talk a lot about the current state of things. They blame rhe internet for turning us into by the numbers sheep without considering anything else about the driving experience because its much easier to brag on the internet with hp numbers. So now reviews cater to people that just read internet numbers and compare them.

Im 6 months in and im still learning the feel of this car and being rewarded with constant challenge and progression. I can feel how fast the engine is spinning and nail a rev match without even checking rpms.

I dont think you get that from 1 drive or a spec sheet. And I certainly didn't really care in the tc

[Boxer486]

fatoni, maybe I missed a more nuanced meaning behind your post, so forgive me if I got it wrong.


To me the FRS isn't even a sport's car but a sporty car as most GTs are. But let's ignore that distinction for a sec. If you were correct to say the FRS is the worst value in sports car history, where does that leave the S2000 that was almost 50% more expensive when the dollar was way stronger than it is today, plus gets worse mileage and has zip for cargo space?


Also, if the FRS could be seen to be a borderline sports car, isn't the TC just a modern Corolla with two doors and a hatch? How is the TC any sort of sports car value if it isn't even a sports car? That's quite a stretch of the imagination it seems to me.

[Davey]

All sports cars are a terrible value when the facts discussed are relative to practicality.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Davey

All sports cars are a terrible value when the facts discussed are relative to practicality.

Exactly. If practicality and functionality is the measuring stick that pretty much leaves every 2 seater convertible as the worst value. Miata, S2K, Boxster, etc.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by thill

Exactly. If practicality and functionality is the measuring stick that pretty much leaves every 2 seater convertible as the worst value. Miata, S2K, Boxster, etc.

Yep and a WRX or STI hatch as one of the best. But it really boils down to what "facts" you care about.