Kraftwerks Supercharger Owners Thread

[post_break]

Originally Posted by TmP

So, I'm reading stuff about check valve yes / no / maybe. Catch cans yes / no / maybe. Oil cooler yes / no / maybe...

WTF? What do we and don't we need with this kit?

Check valve, yes, catch can, yes, Oil cooler completely up to you.

And don't forget to clamp the hoses under the intake manifold unless you want those to blow off.

[SPCorBUST]

I'd say optimal is yes to all, but you could get away with none of them.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[TmP]

What's the ramification of running no on all (but clamp the living crap out of every hose under the hood).

[Calum]

Originally Posted by gmsii

KW doesn't have specific recommendations regarding pcv, we are not in the catch can or emissions consulting business.

but it should be noted that if you are running a catch can, then you are by default venting to atmosphere. if one is not concerned with emissions compliance, there is no real good reason to route the pcv line into the manifold and burn oil vapors

No, but there are several reasons to actively remove blowby gasses from the crankcase.

[post_break]

Originally Posted by TmP

What's the ramification of running no on all (but clamp the living crap out of every hose under the hood).

A check valve is $3. Vs blowing seals and gaskets.

[TmP]

So checkvalves are a must then. That's why I ask people...
Wonder where the fuck I'm going to find those in MX.
What about brass ones from a hardware store? Don't those work too?

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Correct, that is how the PCV system works. It counts on vacuum to pull the crankcase vapors out of the crankcase and into the intake manifold. What it doesn't expect to see is 10 pounds of boost coming at the crankcase and pressurizing it. The check valve just prevents that from occuring.

i understand how pcv check valve works when you are connecting the crankcase to the intake manifold, but we arent talking about that. we are talking about connecting to a catch can. even if you use a check valve, you cannot connect the intake manifold to a catch can that vents to atmosphere...remember, the intake manifold will see vacuum AND boost

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by gmsii

i understand how pcv check valve works when you are connecting the crankcase to the intake manifold, but we arent talking about that. we are talking about connecting to a catch can. even if you use a check valve, you cannot connect the intake manifold to a catch can that vents to atmosphere...remember, the intake manifold will see vacuum AND boost

Yes a vented catch can as I mentioned in one of my posts DOES NOT get connected to the intake manifold. Not everyone runs a vented catch can. @glamcem has a NON vented catch can. I had a vented catch can on my car, and I didn't need a check valve:



You just run a hose up from the barb on the engine block and into the can. Then I used the open spot on the intake manifold to feed my vacuum manifold.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by Calum

No, but there are several reasons to actively remove blowby gasses from the crankcase.

what are they?...you tell me the reasons other than emissions why crankcase pressure is best relieved by ventilating into the the intake manifold, and i will tell you why they are not real reasons and how there are better strategies

can we start a new thread for catch can and crank ventilation discussion? though worthy, this discussion has hijacked this thread

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I am also not running a vented catch can. Hence my discussion of check valves lol. I just wanted to say hey, if you don't run a catch can, or you run one that isn't vented, get a check valve.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by gmsii

what are they?...you tell me the reasons other than emissions why crankcase pressure is best relieved by ventilating into the the intake manifold, and i will tell you why they are not real reasons and how there are better strategies

can we start a new thread for catch can and crank ventilation discussion? though worthy, this discussion has hijacked this thread

@Calum and I have had that discussion in previous threads. I always take the vented side, and he takes the non vented side. I will see if I can dig one of our conversations up. This one should work:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24340

[Calum]

Originally Posted by TmP

So checkvalves are a must then. That's why I ask people...
Wonder where the fuck I'm going to find those in MX.
What about brass ones from a hardware store? Don't those work too?

It has to be made to stop air, not water. Very different standards.

The stock PCV valve should act as a check valve already, but I haven't confirmed that. You may want to before you bother buying additional parts.

Running the PCV system completely untouched will allow the engine to suck in and burn the blowby gasses from the crank case and pull a vacuum on the crank case during . Those gasses will include some atomized oil. The atomized oil can leave deposits and can lower the effective octane of the fuel you're running. Not perfect right.

Running a vent to atmosphere catch can eliminates the down side of the PCV system by completely preventing any oil deposits from entering the intake. But it also eliminates the up side of the PCV system. Running a vacuum in the crank case actually has a dramatic effect on sealing the rings, when there is vacuum available.

Before you start thinking you're putting a forced induction kit on your car, it'll always be in boost, think about YOUR driving. If you're racing, that would likely be a correct assumption. But if you're building a fast street car, you're still likely going to be driving with the intake manifold under vacuum most of the time. By sealing the rings better you help to prevent blowby. Blowby gasses, if not removed from the crankcase, will contaminate the oil much faster than if they are removed. There's also some efficiency and emissions benefits to maintaining a vacuum in the crankcase, but those are secondary effects to the primary purpose of the PCV system.

Running an air oil separator (or sealed catch can) gives the best of both worlds. You eliminate the VAST majority of the harmful gasses from entering the intake, and you maintain a vacuum in the crankcase. The common method of advertising VTA catch cans is the run one on a car and then after a while show how much oil it has caught. But remember, there will be a lot more blowby and thus more oil caught by a catch can, if the crankcase inn't being run in vacuum.

Now the question of how many AOS's you need. A PCV system has two hoses, one the runs from the crankcase to the intake manifold after the throttle body. This is the line that draws a vacuum on the crankcase and is the line that is going to see the majority of the harmful gasses. This line also has the PCV valve to prevent the crankcase from getting pressurized and to adjust the amount of air flow to prevent poor engine running during high vacuum such as idling. Running an AOS or catch can in this line is a must if you're going to do anything.

The other hose runs from the crankcase to the air intake before the throttle body. Most of the air moving through this hose is going into the crankcase through an orifice. But under full throttle gasses can move in either direction in the line depending upon which side has a more positive pressure. I doubt any FI kit would plumb this to the pressurized side of the compressor, but I can't confirm that. Personally I would put a breather filter on the crankcase end of this line and cap off the intake side. The only reason this line is plumbed to the intake before the throttle body is to ensure the air entering it is filtered. Using the main air filter is cheaper than running a second filter, but does give another opportunity for blowby gasses to enter the intake. The other options are to leave this line as is, which isn't that bad of an idea as it should see very little air flow. Or you can put either kind of catch can in the line. I would argue that running a catch can in this line is a waste of money, but I'll leave that to you.

As for an oil cooler, running your oil too cold can be just as bad as too hot. I haven't done sufficient research to know what the best temperature range is. We've all heard arguments for an against oil coolers. I think your best bet will be to log your oil temperatures and then go from there. Unless you're racing, I doubt you're going to run into any catastrophic failure situations before you can determine the correct course of action.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by gmsii

what are they?...you tell me the reasons other than emissions why crankcase pressure is best relieved by ventilating into the the intake manifold, and i will tell you why they are not real reasons and how there are better strategies

can we start a new thread for catch can and crank ventilation discussion? though worthy, this discussion has hijacked this thread

I would love a detailed discussion on this. And for gods sake, can we please get it stickyed, which ever way it goes. This comes up every few months. Maybe @Guff can clean this up a bit and move things to another thread for us?

Clearly I've stated my understanding of the systems operation in my last post/gem style wall of text. If you're willing to explain things I'm happy to learn.

[evo4g63]

I also run a non vented catch can and have one of these nice Boomba Racing check valves.
(This is not an advertisement for Boomba Racing, just what I personally run)

http://www.boombaracing.com/check-valves/