Best blower option? Kraftwerks?

[xwd]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Perhaps you're not understanding my post.

If you put an identical turbo pushing an identical mass of air, at an identical psi, on two different engines, you should be getting a similar horsepower, right? If the mass of air going into the engine is the same, then you need a proportional amount of fuel to combust (otherwise you will be too rich/lean), which should result in similar horsepower.

No, that isn't how it works, it isn't an identical mass of air.

An engine is an air pump, even though your pressure might be similar they are not moving the air the same.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dwx

No, that isn't how it works, it isn't an identical mass of air.

An engine is an air pump, even though your pressure might be similar they are not moving the air the same.

That is precisely my point.

The FA20 is the limitation.

[TmP]

So the engine sucks output wise, that's pretty obvious.
I mean it makes less torque than the starter motor on a SBC. lol

What about durability though?
What's a SAFE power level for the stock moturd?
Anyone making cams for these things?
Looks and sounds like the stock ones aren't exactly aggressive...

[xwd]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That is precisely my point.

The FA20 is the limitation.

That's like saying a F22C is the limitation because it doesn't make 500RWHP like a LS7. The amount of air the supercharger is pushing isn't the same between the two motors. You just can't compare the same blower/turbo on two different motors, it's silly. The F22C makes 40HP more than a FA20 without the supercharger, adding a supercharger doesn't even that out...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dwx

That's like saying a F22C is the limitation because it doesn't make 500RWHP like a LS7. The amount of air the supercharger is pushing isn't the same between the two motors. You just can't compare the same blower/turbo on two different motors, it's silly. The F22C makes 40HP more than a FA20 without the supercharger, adding a supercharger doesn't even that out...

Comparing a 7.0L LS7 to a 2.15L F22C is silly. Comparing a 2.15L F22C to a 2.0L FA20 is not.

Both are 4 cylinders, relatively high revving, high compression, naturally aspirated engines. Both are relatively small bore, small stroke engines.

Three, yes three, LS7 cylinders, displace more than both the F22C and FA20.

The difference is 40hp (20%) when naturally aspirated. That difference jumps to 120hp when boosted with a Rotrex at ~9psi (~90k rpm), which is 43%.

If the Supercharger is being spun the same way, but is flowing less on one engine than the other... the engine is that variable..

[TmP]

Well, you can't compare a real engine like an LS7 with the toy motors in either the S2k or the 86. lol

[TmP]

KW kit ordered.
I like the idea of the separate belt drive for reliability.
Don't want to end up stuck in the middle of nowhere in the Mexican mountains with a car that can't drive...
Also, I like the future upgradability to the C38 headunit and higher boost pulleys.
Currently I don't have access to e85, but I will in the future... so it makes sense to plan ahead.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That is precisely my point.

The FA20 is the limitation.

i can't figure out what your point is other than pointing out the base s2000 engine is more efficient than the fa20

give the same air mass blown out from the compressor, the f22 honda engine will have lower boost (primarily due to better intake port flow and also larger cams) than the fa20

the FA20 is what it is....what bearing does the F22's performance have on the supercharger selection of the FA20?

for the record, KW has plenty of cars running just fine on either the C30-94 with the highboost pulley and the C38

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Comparing a 7.0L LS7 to a 2.15L F22C is silly. Comparing a 2.15L F22C to a 2.0L FA20 is not.

Both are 4 cylinders, relatively high revving, high compression, naturally aspirated engines. Both are relatively small bore, small stroke engines.

Three, yes three, LS7 cylinders, displace more than both the F22C and FA20.

The difference is 40hp (20%) when naturally aspirated. That difference jumps to 120hp when boosted with a Rotrex at ~9psi (~90k rpm), which is 43%.

If the Supercharger is being spun the same way, but is flowing less on one engine than the other... the engine is that variable..

I'm sorry but this is such a biased opinion. LOL

2157 cc engine if you really want to get technical vs. 1998 cc engine.

There is no replacement for displacement. The f22 has about 8% larger displacement and you can't calculate 8% more displacement as a straight calculation.

You might as well be comparing an LS7 to any 4cyl, because its asinine to say "that engine is weak because this bigger engine with the same boost level makes more power". Which is, in a nutshell, your comparison of the two.

[TmP]

Yeah, but the advantage is not proportional to the increase in displacement...
Ergo - Honda makes a "better" motor than Subaru.

Shocker.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TmP

Yeah, but the advantage is not proportional to the increase in displacement...
Ergo - Honda makes a "better" motor than Subaru.

Shocker.

Not sure what you are trying to say when you say "The advantage is not proportional..." because thats what I meant. I.E. 10% more displacement =/= 10% more power.


Probably the most impressive econobox engine i know of is the b18c honda engine.

That was just an impressive engine

[TmP]

In what universe is 270 vs 405 an 8 percent advantage again?
lol

Best econobox engine has to be the SRT4's 2.4 Turbo.
But I'm biased of course. haha

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TmP

In what universe is 270 vs 405 an 8 percent advantage again?
lol

Best econobox engine has to be the SRT4's 2.4 Turbo.
But I'm biased of course. haha

... are you funnin me?


2157 = 108% of 1998.

[CSG David]

Well this kind of got off topic quickly.

Church Automotive's S2000 has a factory F20C (1997cc) with a C30-94 blower running around 15psi of boost and ~560-600hp with E85. All he did was change the pulley out and tune it. You can find this car in the Import Tuner 2013 FR Shootout.

Either way, congratulations on your purchase @TmP. You will enjoy the generic FI lifestyle. Did you go straight to the C38-81 option?