Best blower option? Kraftwerks?

[TmP]

Also, now that I have the right guy in the right thread :

What about headers? Is it true that the KW doesn't allow you to run headers?

[KraftWerks]

Originally Posted by TmP

So... what if someone were to order a C38 for future growth potential, but wants to run it low boost / conservative tune?
Is there ANY canned tune one can use with the C38?

@gmsii speaks the truth.

Originally Posted by gmsii

And for the record, the C38 is not a 'beta' kit...it is sold as a you-tune upgrade option (no canned tune will be available)...they are being ordered regularly

Originally Posted by TmP

Also, now that I have the right guy in the right thread :

What about headers? Is it true that the KW doesn't allow you to run headers?

Where did you hear such a thing!? Yes you can run aftermarket headers with the kit.

[post_break]

Originally Posted by TmP

Also, now that I have the right guy in the right thread :

What about headers? Is it true that the KW doesn't allow you to run headers?

I have the KW kit with a full exhaust. Borla header, etc. I don't know why you couldn't run a header since it hangs off the front of the engine, not the bottom.

[TmP]

I know the questions sounds idiotic, but someone warned me that the KW kit would interfere with ELHs...

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by TmP

I know the questions sounds idiotic, but someone warned me that the KW kit would interfere with ELHs...

someone was an idiot,

that said there are incompatible headers, i.e. nameless or probably most any header that loops up in front of the engine.

[TmP]

Makes sense.

[TmP]

LOL

Like I said, I've got some pretty stout rides, this one doesn't have to be a rocket, just powerful enought to keep 'em spinning

And with the KW kit, there is always the C38 / e85 option

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gmsii

And we've found that the FA20 engine is not the limitation! So what is the limitation to running the C38?....its your available fuel selection. The bottom line is the C38 moves more air therefore makes more boost, therefore on 91 pump gas, you can't run much timing on the high compression FA20. With lots of boost, shitty gas, and high compression the tuning can get real touchy. Your tuner better know what he's doing because the tuning for the dual injected FA20 engine can be quite tricky if you dont know what to look for. If you have higher octane fuel than the crap we have in California or you want to run on ethanol, the C38 kit is an absolute beast.

The FA20 is the limitation. The proof is in the pudding. Other platforms, using the same C30-94, make more power, using the same shitty california gas, with no supporting mods except injectors. Here's my evidence, on a S2000 I did myself. This car is using the *exact same* supercharger at 9.2 psi of boost. It would be making *more* power if we upgrade the fuel pump from stock; the torque starts to taper at around 5500 RPM because we're running out of fuel pump. A later tune with an upgraded fuel pump yielded about 450hp.

There are ZERO other supporting mods on this car.

- Stock F22C1
- Stock 11.1:1 compression
- Stock spark plugs
- Stock catalytic converter
- Stock exhaust
- Stock fuel pump
- DW900 injectors
- California 91 octane pump gas (mix of Chevron and 76 in this case), summer blend.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

- California 91 octane pump gas (mix of Chevron and 76 in this case), summer blend.

what stations do you recommend for best 91 here in CA? what ones do you avoid?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

what stations do you recommend for best 91 here in CA? what ones do you avoid?

Any of the brand names should be fine (76, Shell, Chevron, etc.).

If you can find non-ethanol (e10/e15) gas (unlikely), then that stuff is awesome.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The FA20 is the limitation. The proof is in the pudding. Other platforms, using the same C30-94, make more power, using the same shitty california gas, with no supporting mods except injectors. Here's my evidence, on a S2000 I did myself. This car is using the *exact same* supercharger at 9.2 psi of boost. It would be making *more* power if we upgrade the fuel pump from stock; the torque starts to taper at around 5500 RPM because we're running out of fuel pump. A later tune with an upgraded fuel pump yielded about 450hp.

at 9-10lbs cali 91gas works fine...at 14+lbs with high compression, its not so friendly

we must be interpreting FA20 engine as 'the limitation' differently.
do you mean its the limitation why the C30-94 wont make more power at the same boost levels when compared to other engines (ie s2000)? or do you mean it is the limitation because it will break when you try to make more power with it (ie when using a C38 blower)? I interpreted it as the latter, however I also agree with the former. So we may actually be agreeing

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by gmsii

at 9-10lbs cali 91gas works fine...at 14+lbs with high compression, its not so friendly

we must be interpreting FA20 engine as 'the limitation' differently.
do you mean its the limitation why the C30-94 wont make more power at the same boost levels when compared to other engines (ie s2000)? or do you mean it is the limitation because it will break when you try to make more power with it (ie when using a C38 blower)? I interpreted it as the latter, however I also agree with the former. So we may actually be agreeing

We've overspun the C30-94 and pushed around 145k RPM (without calculating in the 3% belt slip considered standard), on California 91, and not had issues. E85 make a crapton more power, but it was more of just an exercise to see what could be done on the S2000.

However, at that power level, we're skeptical of the FA20's strength.

[xwd]

Why are you comparing a much more expensive 2.2L Honda engine with larger than stock injectors spinning to 8400RPM (above the stock redline) to a stock FA20? That doesn't make any sense.


Edit: I found a dyno of a C30 unit on an E46 M3 and guess what, at lower boost it makes more power than the same unit on a S2000...which isn't surprising since the stock engine makes almost 100hp more.

Like has been said the limitation on making more power on the FA20 is the fuel you are using. We all have FA20s...if it's stock they are making around the same power unless tuned for different gas.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by dwx

Why are you comparing a much more expensive 2.2L Honda engine with larger than stock injectors spinning to 8400RPM (above the stock redline) to a stock FA20? That doesn't make any sense.


Edit: I found a dyno of a C30 unit on an E46 M3 and guess what, at lower boost it makes more power than the same unit on a S2000...which isn't surprising since the stock engine makes almost 100hp more.

Like has been said the limitation on making more power on the FA20 is the fuel you are using. We all have FA20s...if it's stock they are making around the same power unless tuned for different gas.

Perhaps you're not understanding my post.

If you put an identical turbo pushing an identical mass of air, at an identical psi, on two different engines, you should be getting a similar horsepower, right? If the mass of air going into the engine is the same, then you need a proportional amount of fuel to combust (otherwise you will be too rich/lean), which should result in similar horsepower.

In the case of our example, we have the same supercharger, spinning at similar RPM, at similar boost. From that, based on compressor maps, you can extrapolate that a similar mass of air should be moving through each engine, resulting in a similar horsepower output. The horsepower output is dramatically different.

On a side note, a new F22C long block is about 6200 from Honda. A FA20 longblock cannot be purchased, but you can buy all the parts you need to assemble one for about 7800. Used F2xC run about 2000-3500; used FA20 run 2500-3500.


RE: E46 making significantly MORE horsepower with a C30-94? Please link me! I'm aware of a lot of C30-94 setups making low 400s hp on the E46, but not significantly more. I do know of C38 setups that are making 550+ on the E46, and 620ish on the E9x.