Best blower option? Kraftwerks?

[Freeman]

Whatever kit you end up with you'll enjoy. Boost is so fun in these cars.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by TmP

Dang. That's a nice thread.
So comes down to the same thing.

KW haha - or Jackson. Depends on price really.

Does the Jackson kit allow for an ELH?

Well price is one thing to look at, but track record is also another. I suggest reading through the thread. You may actually like the idea of the Innovate or something else other than the KW or JR. While we are JR dealers, we suggest you formulate your own opinion on different setups. We have an engineering mindset so we just recommend what works and what works well for our application and goals.

JR kit should allow ELH without issue. It does not require you to have modified crank pulley which can cause some issues with clearance.

[TmP]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Well price is one thing to look at, but track record is also another. I suggest reading through the thread. You may actually like the idea of the Innovate or something else other than the KW or JR. While we are JR dealers, we suggest you formulate your own opinion on different setups. We have an engineering mindset so we just recommend what works and what works well for our application and goals.

JR kit should allow ELH without issue. It does not require you to have modified crank pulley which can cause some issues with clearance.

You are trying to point me towards the issues per month chart, aren't you?
haha

K, how much for the Jackson kit good sir?

[D K]

I read somewhere that the JR kit comes with a free sharkfin antennae?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by D K

I read somewhere that the JR kit comes with a free sharkfin antennae?

Decreased drag bro!

[D K]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Decreased drag bro!

Yea.

I need NAWS.

[TmP]

Got a quote for the JR kit, waiting on feedback on the KW.
Based on all I read, it's gonna be one of the two.

The innovate just makes zero sense and the vortec is like a weak version of the JR/KW.

Turbo is a no-go this time around, as I want zero lag on this setup.
And the swap is a PITA in comparison to the one afternoon blower build...

[blindfold]

I've been looking through rotrex compressor maps and been crunching numbers and trying my best to pick between c30 and c38. Goal is to achieve reliable 300whp and roughly 220lb/ft, it would be nice to leave some room for growth since this will be used on Shanghai F1 circuit which is a power oriented track. Local supercharger kits are sole HKS, I believe it is similar to c30 size but good tuning is rather lacking. Also another problem or issue that needs to be addressed with kraftwerks unit is the oil cooler adapter interferes with the supercharger itself, but I am certain an oil cooler is a must.

I am very unfamiliar with superchargers coming from turbos since these units builds boost soon as you crank over the engine, and not exactly sure on how to pick between c30/c38 since compressors only tell half the story. C30's efficiency island is very small and it seems head room for the future is very limited. And also pulley size affect boost but not sure if it affects the rate boost builds, or say matching the supercharger speed to max engine speed, many questions to be answered and much to be learned. So if anyone has insight, please do share and thank you in advance.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by blindfold

I've been looking through rotrex compressor maps and been crunching numbers and trying my best to pick between c30 and c38. Goal is to achieve reliable 300whp and roughly 220lb/ft, it would be nice to leave some room for growth since this will be used on Shanghai F1 circuit which is a power oriented track. Local supercharger kits are sole HKS, I believe it is similar to c30 size but good tuning is rather lacking. Also another problem or issue that needs to be addressed with kraftwerks unit is the oil cooler adapter interferes with the supercharger itself, but I am certain an oil cooler is a must.

I am very unfamiliar with superchargers coming from turbos since these units builds boost soon as you crank over the engine, and not exactly sure on how to pick between c30/c38 since compressors only tell half the story. C30's efficiency island is very small and it seems head room for the future is very limited. And also pulley size affect boost but not sure if it affects the rate boost builds, or say matching the supercharger speed to max engine speed, many questions to be answered and much to be learned. So if anyone has insight, please do share and thank you in advance.

A C30 setup's limitation is not the the supercharger; it's the FA20. The C30 is better sized from a pure efficiency standpoint, but the C38 will make more power overall, simply because it's forcing more air into the engine.

Jackson Racing does not offer the C38 at the moment, and the Kraftwerks kit is "Beta".

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by TmP

You are trying to point me towards the issues per month chart, aren't you?
haha

for the record the issues per month chart is a stupid piece of broscience.
yes...for the record, KW has some teething pains with kitting forgetting little items...inconvenient yes, but nothing major. all issues are addressed and our customers are happy; we take customer service seriously...you should also know the KW kits probably outsells the 'other' rotrex kit 8:1 if not more...more kits sold and run = more possible issues reported...the stupid chart does not account for the issues with the other kits during their initial launch phase. the innovate and vortech units have been constant works in progress as should all kits.

no belt break issues with the KW, and even there was, you could still drive the car rather than be dead in the water.

also, the KW is easily upgraded to a small high boost pulley and/or also the larger C38 blower

here's another thing people need to realize....when you drive the supercharger off the serpentine belt and you upgrade to the smaller high boost pulleys, the chances of slippage and belt breakage go up dramatically

you can check out this past post for more info
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=848

[TmP]

I am trying to get a quote for the KW kit with tune (saw the GB) with an oil cooler, but noone is responding...

[post_break]

Originally Posted by gmsii

also, the KW is easily upgraded to a small high boost pulley

Where is this pulley? How much?

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A C30 setup's limitation is not the the supercharger; it's the FA20. The C30 is better sized from a pure efficiency standpoint, but the C38 will make more power overall, simply because it's forcing more air into the engine.

Jackson Racing does not offer the C38 at the moment, and the Kraftwerks kit is "Beta".

When all you got is a C30, then of course you have to spin it as 'better sized for pure efficiency' blah blah blah. The reality is that the C38 moves more air and makes more power than the C30 everywhere. Comparing compressor map efficiency islands it not terribly meaningful unless we are talking about the same sized blowers.

And we've found that the FA20 engine is not the limitation! So what is the limitation to running the C38?....its your available fuel selection. The bottom line is the C38 moves more air therefore makes more boost, therefore on 91 pump gas, you can't run much timing on the high compression FA20. With lots of boost, shitty gas, and high compression the tuning can get real touchy. Your tuner better know what he's doing because the tuning for the dual injected FA20 engine can be quite tricky if you dont know what to look for. If you have higher octane fuel than the crap we have in California or you want to run on ethanol, the C38 kit is an absolute beast.

And for the record, the C38 is not a 'beta' kit...it is sold as a you-tune upgrade option (no canned tune will be available)...they are being ordered regularly

Just wondering outloud....
Interesting how the other rotrex kit maker 'does not offer the C38 upgrade at the moment', this statement at very least implies the idea is being kicked around if not already in the works...thus validating the need for a C38 upgrade...na'mean?! Reading the tea leaves, JR's new smaller and tighter intake pipe (downgrading the 3" silicone for what looks to be 2.5" aluminum) would probably mean they are trying to get more tubing clearance so they can shove the larger C38 blower in the same space....after that they will have to try and figure out how to make the belt not slip and burn up trying to turn that beast. I am curious why they dont have a smaller pulley upgrade either?...seems like a relatively simple upgrade...are they having belt slip issues?...or tuning issues?...after chattering about new upgrade parts in the works, why did it get so silent all of a sudden?...why is the test car down for 6 months?...are there really aliens at area 51?

[TmP]

So... what if someone were to order a C38 for future growth potential, but wants to run it low boost / conservative tune?
Is there ANY canned tune one can use with the C38?