Since when did we get HP crazy……

[fatoni]

a couple things worth noting. power is a requisite for being fast so if people want to go fast, they need power. power is cheap so thats what companies market and its demographic are buying into the sale pitch. while i dont appreciate power as much as handling, i understand that power is more ubiquitous in ultra fast cars than light weight.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by fatoni

a couple things worth noting. power is a requisite for being fast so if people want to go fast, they need power. power is cheap so thats what companies market and its demographic are buying into the sale pitch. while i dont appreciate power as much as handling, i understand that power is more ubiquitous in ultra fast cars than light weight.

Plus all the electronics/mechanicals that keep the "average Joe" from killing himself in those ultra fast cars are heavy.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Plus all the electronics/mechanicals that keep the "average Joe" from killing himself in those ultra fast cars are heavy.

while that is definitely true, i still think that a lot of really fast cars are what many of the people here would consider to be heavy. i think a significant part of it is that powerful cars need stability and that requires a larger wheelbase and stiffer chassi so the cars are simply bigger. that plus needing more stopping power and a sturdier drivetrain gets things pretty heavy pretty fast.

[Gords_zenith]

I'm gonna chime in here, as I think this is a great conversation.

I love my BRZ, but I recently had the chance to drive a friends old but still in good shape 280ZX 5 spd, and was amazed at how well that car felt to me. It's throttle response was bang on, hugged the corners fairly well - on 33 year old bushings, with less hp, and overall was really fun - almost to the point I almost preferred it over my brz lol. So my point is I've grown past the point "my car had this many hp and anything less is stupid" phase. I was once a stat junkie myself that used to praise all the HP cars made and I simply wrote off 90's japs with their "only 276hp" rating cause I was brainwashed into thinking that having huge numbers was the only thing that mattered. I've come to the realization that the way the car feels on the road is way more important than out right speed. However, don't get me wrong though as I love speed too but our speed limits haven't been raised in forever and our roads are getting even more crowded, so to go fast simply in a straight line kinda means nothing now, IMO. But in saying all that I wouldn't mind an extra 20 or so Ft-LBs of torque. I think the HP is perfect but some extra grunt and more rpms, as I love revving this thing out sounds very nice, not H6 nice but a lot nicer than some inline 4. Anyways, that's my piece.

[Scaldy]

The Honda Fit won car of the year in Canada a few years ago mostly due to the fact you could drive it at 90% of it's limits all over town. The FRS is the same way; you can drive it to it's limits legally. What are you going to do with a Corvette on our local roads? You'll drive it to 40% of it's capabilities until you can track it.

The other area people over look is dropping weight. I took the spare tire out and noticed a difference immediately. Don't worry, I replaced the tire with a tire inflation kit.

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by Scaldy

The Honda Fit won car of the year in Canada a few years ago mostly due to the fact you could drive it at 90% of it's limits all over town. The FRS is the same way; you can drive it to it's limits legally. What are you going to do with a Corvette on our local roads? You'll drive it to 40% of it's capabilities until you can track it.

The other area people over look is dropping weight. I took the spare tire out and noticed a difference immediately. Don't worry, I replaced the tire with a tire inflation kit.

Ohhhh...the power of butt dynos! Lol

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by sprintertrueno86

I still feel that they should offer a higher HP version 220-230 just to shut everyone up but it is not going to happen until a few more years when sales start to really decline.

I can see the reactions if they actually do that. "Its still too slow", "It still needs more power!". Even if it was given 300 hp, "OMG its too expensive, I might as well buy a Mustang GT which has more power!". For driving around in public roads this car is more than acceptable, with a good launch in the manual you'll beat most of the cars on the road. That said, I don't really care if a Camry is faster, nobody cares about a fast Camry. Driving a FRS/BRZ to a parking lot and inspiring people(likely kids) that cars don't have to be a boring appliance...that's far more worth it.

Having too much power in a car on public roads is just asking for the police happily ticket you to their heart's content. I've driven a Mustang GT and its way way more powerful than this car, but even with my experience and my more careful driving style...I couldn't get away from the fact that I was either wasting that 420 hp or if I used even a fraction of it...I'll lose my license. I hated that feeling of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Without a derestricted autobahn, having so much power in a road car is frankly pointless. The only time you could use that is on a race track, if you track your FRS/BRZ its only then I can understand why you feel 200 hp isn't enough. Watching this car on a track especially on long straights, that's when you see the hp really matter. In a world governed by speed limits and speed enforcement though, this becomes a non issue.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Quentin

At some point you'll move to B stock, though. From what I've read, the twins are quite competent C stock cars. My two times through an autox course had the tail wagging, so I need a driver mod before more power.

I started in STX, and now am in SM. There's lots of fast and powerful cars I get to race against now.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Rampage

A MR2 Spyder just won the STR Class at the Mineral Springs Pro Solo. If he is lucky, he might have 160 crank HP. He beat a 370Z, a bunch of s2000s and a bunch of MX-5s. It is not always about HP. Even in autox.

I think it became "all about HP" because most Americans only drive in urban or suburban settings. Sporty driving is beating the guy in the next lane to the next stoplight. Therefore, it cannot be a sports car if a V-6 Camry or V-6 minivan can get to the next light before them. V-8 Pony car or sedan? Forgeddaboudit!

I'm still getting beat on raw times by STR cars, LOL. I just want to be more competitive (i.e. get 1st instead of 2nd or 3rd) with the local SM cars in my class.

[Sasquachulator]

I think it really got out of hand when your run of the mill midsize family car got injected with a dose of horsepower.


I remember when around 200-230 was about standard for a family car. They did like 0-60 in around 8 seconds or so, that was about standard. Then one company (I dunno which one...might have been Honda) brought out a 276hp V6 beast and it did like 0-60 in 6 seconds or so, easily matching some of the sports cars/sports compacts of the day.


Then every manufacturer had a 276/280hp family car doing 0-60 in 6 seconds. These things were damn near close to embarrassing some sportier cars. for the FWD cars around 300hp is the limit before torque steer takes control of your car. I think that's why the family cars don't really have much more power than they have now.


Sports sedans and luxury cars on the other hand...RWD....mad power. I think Lexus brought the thunder when the 2nd gen IS brought 306hp (top at the time) and just smoked everyone before everyone jumped onto the 300hp bandwagon during their next respective cycles. Of course the power didn't grow that much either, I think about 325 or something has been the highest in the sports sedan side of things. Obviously the bigger cars need bigger engines which need bigger powers to maintain at least speed parity with their brethren.


Now they just throw more power at the sports cars because they'll get embarrassed if a family car can keep up with them.

[gily25]

Chicken and egg situation right here.

When highway speed limits began to increase and road materials made the terrain smoother, cars were built to move faster. Current limits in most states 65-70 mph and in the late 60-70's they were 45-55 mph. http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/l...imit_laws.html

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Monogram

I want more power so I can pass cars in a shorter distance on back country two lane roads.

Now that I have more power and can pass cars in a shorter distance on back country two lane roads, now I need more power so I can pass cars in an even shorter distance on back country two lane roads.

Now that I have more power ...

Now, ain't THAT the truth .....


humfrz

[makesdrivingfunagain]

This is an interesting post indeed! It is actually surprising if not perhaps a bit frightening the amounts of power many cars make today. People that really have no idea how to handle this power are driving cars that make me scared. I know personally my Mom drives a modern 330 V8 mustang that moves. This sounds hilarious, my Mom, who is a grandma has a faster car than me, lol, lol, I mean seriously...It really surprises me how fast these production cars our (North America). I never, would have thought there would be so many 200mph cars on 65 mph freeways (if no traffic, hehe). They can have the horsepower and the weight. I will take the handling, braking and gas mileage any day over that. Pardon me, I may qualify this, as long as the speed limit is a silly, silly 65 mph. If we ever got mass transit freeways or toll roads like the autobahn I may reconsider, may reconsider...

[Deep Six]

It's really a simple one word answer........marketing

Now whether or not this particular platform needs a bump in power can only be answered for yourself and there is no wrong answer!