Stance/hellaflush, Why?

[Noz]

I just think people generalize too much. People tend to only see the bad examples of a certain genre that they don't like and think the whole thing is bad. It's like saying Creed and Nickelback are horrible rock bands, so rock music as a whole is horrible. Including people like Elvis and The Beatles. The more popular something gets, the more shit will try to mimic. That's just how it works. I've noticed though, people that like to talk the most shit are the people that say "back in my days...". Including myself... ha

[moomoopanda]

In my opinion, the thing that is bad about hellaflush/stance cars are when people put together janky car setups that make the car unsafe. There are many people that make it look cool, and also have it relatively drivable as well.

There are many people that buy good/decent coilover setups, get alignments, set up the car for "stance" without ruining the integrity of the car. The cars that are unsafe are those that are on cut springs, have terrible alignments that promote more tire wear, and just overall shitty drivers.

Not everyone drives like a dumbass, but some do, and unfortunately, they are the ones that get put into the spotlight when hellafail threads are made. There are many cars on the road that are way more unsafe than some of these hellaflush cars, those rusted buckets that drive around and probably haven't been maintained, people driving with semi-bald tires, worn brake pads, etc.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

this thread is one of the reasons i am beginning to hate the car scene as it is today.

people have no respect for others, and threads like this are a perfect example, you're not enthusiasts anymore.

is my car "hellaflaush"? no... hell i bet you don't even know the difference between the multiple fitment terms...however i can respect what others have done even though its not to my liking. I don't have to cram my views down other peoples throats, at the very most i'll offer some constructive criticism. i can respect the work and time put in to the car. most stance guys i know, that actually have good fitment and not just a stretched tire because they don't know better, actually are some of the better drivers i know, they keep a VERY big following distance and are more aware of the road than others because they are low.

honestly have you seen YOURSELVES, not some videos or internet write ups, of said stanced cars crashing?

that video above is meaningless...because driving like a douche isn't the cause of this...? who knows what the temps were like, is he on summer tires in cold weather? its a video in russia so who knows the conditions. the driver even uttered in russian "are you fucking crazy"

with this platform there have been more crashes with NEWB drivers and people who aren't stanced and on stock wheels/tires than any guys with serious fitment wrecking. that is FACT. how many threads are there of nearly bone stock cars crashed or wrecked due to driver error or someone trying to be cool? hell even some threads of people crashing at no fault of their own but due to the stock tires sucking.

if you are really a car enthusiast, you'll respect what others do, and maybe instead of bashing and starting threads like this you make a post explaining what a contact patch is, how it effect braking and handling, what the proper wheel size is for X width...but why try to educate a community when you can just bash and hate, right?

-ivan

I have seen stanced guys acting just like that guy on the video in person. I don't have a problem with stanced vehicles at all, unless they are on the roads where they are not safe.

Plenty of people trailer their cars because its not legal or safe on the roads.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by Noz

I just think people generalize too much. People tend to only see the bad examples of a certain genre that they don't like and think the whole thing is bad. It's like saying Creed and Nickelback are horrible rock bands, so rock music as a whole is horrible. Including people like Elvis and The Beatles. The more popular something gets, the more shit will try to mimic. That's just how it works. I've noticed though, people that like to talk the most shit are the people that say "back in my days...". Including myself... ha

You are right on the money. People generalize too much and rather than educating or understanding the situation themselves, they blindly follow it. This goes for BOTH sides of the argument. It's also funny because the anonymity of the internet helps fuel these pointless arguments. The same guys complaining about it are the same ones that continually go to car shows/meets and expose themselves to it and don't say shit in person.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I have seen stanced guys acting just like that guy on the video in person.

I've seen plenty of people NOT in stanced vehicles acting just like that guy on the video. The last one was this morning driving a Dodge Ram 2500. It's not the car mods that are making the vehicle unsafe on the roads.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I've seen plenty of people NOT in stanced vehicles acting just like that guy on the video. The last one was this morning driving a Dodge Ram 2500. It's not the car mods that are making the vehicle unsafe on the roads.

There are plenty of people who drive like idiots. BUT when you are driving with even less contact patch, its even more dangerous.

[gramicci101]

I'd be more worried about the hypermilers that overinflate their tires to purposefully minimize contact patch and turn off their engines when they go down hills, personally. A reasonably stanced vehicle (not oni camber) isn't going to have any less contact patch than my hyundai elantra did with its OEM 195 tires.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I'd be more worried about the hypermilers that overinflate their tires to purposefully minimize contact patch and turn off their engines when they go down hills, personally. A reasonably stanced vehicle (not oni camber) isn't going to have any less contact patch than my hyundai elantra did with its OEM 195 tires.

So just show me a "Herra Frush" guy who isn't oni camber.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

So just show me a "Herra Frush" guy who isn't oni camber.

http://www.vertex-usa.com/news-and-i...over-1207.html

This was a while ago but I helped build this car.

245 tires on 10.5" wheels.

I know a lot of other cars (especially those in the VIP scene) who drive perfectly normal.

-alex

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

The "hella flush" guys do not know what "flush" means. Show me one "hella flush" guy who isn't on some retarded camber.

Running that amount of camber on public roads is not safe. I give a f*ck if you think you're the stig. Running that amount of camber lessens linear contact patch. Less tire contact = longer stopping distance.

this thing ran almost 0 rear camber.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

So just show me a "Herra Frush" guy who isn't oni camber.

0 rear camber and no tire stretch.. Oh em gee.

Clearly the ignorance is huge within these threads. You can totally have a low car with flush fitment and still have the car be functional. Yes, you start to make compromises as you go lower and more aggressive in fitment. That's not to say that they still can't be driven. Both cars pictured above have been used in pro competition. If you spend the extra time and money to do it right, you can achieve this look without making so much of a compromise.

The problem is the ones who go extremely crazy-like the ones everybody likes to post pictures of. For some reason, everybody thinks that hellaflush automatically means 7 degrees of camber an 215s on 10j wheels which is not true. There are so many better examples out there of cars done without being so over the top. But of course, everybody wants to try and make an example and prove a point-as if some person on the interweb that nobody knows who they are, or even gives a damn about, will change everybody's opinion. Even still, not everybody is building a car with the intention of tracking it.

This forum is seriously becoming a shithole because of redundant threads like this. Isn't there like 73 threads about the same exact thing? Everybody wants to post how they're "a true enthusiast" and yet they're the first ones to bash on everybody else's cars. If you don't like the way it looks, quit fucking looking at it. Or do you just lack the self discipline to do so? Some random no name dude behind a computer in his mother's basement is not going to change the opinion of tens of thousands of people across the globe.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojkQVKabaGE[/ame]

^ Look at that, people with low cars and aggressive wheels using their cars on the track. Crazy huh? You can sit here all day and try and force the same in accurate, redundant bullshit down people's' throats, but at the end of the day, all of you sitting here bitching and complaining are the ones who suck because I guarantee the dudes in that video are having way more fun enjoying their cars than you are are bashing on everybody else's.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by mav1178

http://www.vertex-usa.com/news-and-i...over-1207.html

This was a while ago but I helped build this car.

245 tires on 10.5" wheels.

I know a lot of other cars (especially those in the VIP scene) who drive perfectly normal.

-alex

I actually bought his old S14 and continued to build it over a 5 years span.

http://www.vertex-usa.com/customers-...z-edition.html

Jay knows how to build cars for sure

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

this thing ran almost 0 rear camber.





0 rear camber and no tire stretch.. Oh em gee.

Clearly the ignorance is huge within these threads. You can totally have a low car with flush fitment and still have the car be functional. Yes, you start to make compromises as you go lower and more aggressive in fitment. That's not to say that they still can't be driven. Both cars pictured above have been used in pro competition. If you spend the extra time and money to do it right, you can achieve this look without making so much of a compromise.

The problem is the ones who go extremely crazy-like the ones everybody likes to post pictures of. For some reason, everybody thinks that hellaflush automatically means 7 degrees of camber an 215s on 10j wheels which is not true. There are so many better examples out there of cars done without being so over the top. But of course, everybody wants to try and make an example and prove a point-as if some person on the interweb that nobody knows who they are, or even gives a damn about, will change everybody's opinion. Even still, not everybody is building a car with the intention of tracking it.

This forum is seriously becoming a shithole because of redundant threads like this. Isn't there like 73 threads about the same exact thing? Everybody wants to post how they're "a true enthusiast" and yet they're the first ones to bash on everybody else's cars. If you don't like the way it looks, quit fucking looking at it. Or do you just lack the self discipline to do so? Some random no name dude behind a computer in his mother's basement is not going to change the opinion of tens of thousands of people across the globe.

^ Look at that, people with low cars and aggressive wheels using their cars on the track. Crazy huh? You can sit here all day and try and force the same in accurate, redundant bullshit down people's' throats, but at the end of the day, all of you sitting here bitching and complaining are the ones who suck because I guarantee the dudes in that video are having way more fun enjoying their cars than you are are bashing on everybody else's.

Granted if you pooch out your fenders you can fit a wider wheel w/o having to have extreme camber.

These pics are not VIP style or "Herra Frush". These are purpose built track cars.....

Thank you for contribution though.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Granted if you pooch out your fenders you can fit a wider wheel w/o having to have extreme camber.

These pics are not VIP style or "Herra Frush". These are purpose built track cars.....

Thank you for contribution though.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?.. Obviously the cars are not VIP style but there is, indeed, a flush wheel setup.

You can fit a wider wheel without "pooching" out your fenders. It comes down to the offset.

I've only been doing this since 2005, and other people here have been doing it even longer but please continue on how much you know on the subject that you seem to hate so much.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously the cars are not VIP style but there is, indeed, a flush wheel setup.

You can fit a wider wheel without "pooching" out your fenders. It comes down to the offset.

I've only been doing this since 2005, but please continue on how much you know on the subject that you seem to hate so much.

Thanks for chiming in again. The debate is the functionality of "herra frush" stanced people. Obviously a purpose built track car is functional.

Glad you've been doing this since 2005.