Full Blown Turbo Kit Owners Topic

[Reaper]

I have no skid plates and no overheating issues

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[Deadspool]

I have skid plates. but I live in Canada.

[Dipstik-sportech]

I'm not running mine and have had no issues up to 150+ mph

The Frozen North

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

Is driving without the skid plates considered pretty dangerous?

It isn't dangerous persay, but it ruins the hard work the Subaru/Toyota aero guys did giving this car a nice low cd.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by mashal

So what are people doing for the engine mounts? I saw the Perrin ones they look good.

I would argue the OEM ones seem to work just fine and mine didn't melt in over 15,000 miles with the FBM kit.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I would argue the OEM ones seem to work just fine and mine didn't melt in over 15,000 miles with the FBM kit.

The OEM ones are not a problem in the sense they will fail, break, snap soon after installing a FI kit. I got them mainly because specially with FI, the engine moves a lot and that translates into lost power, possibility of stressing the exhaust, possibility of the exhaust hitting the frame, etc.

People also need to calm down, and don't make this a mass hysteria huge issue. There is ONE failure of the mounts, in I bet over 50 installed Perrin mounts in the forum.

Vibrant also sells mount heat blankets or you can wrap them with regular header wrap.

[shiro]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I would argue the OEM ones seem to work just fine and mine didn't melt in over 15,000 miles with the FBM kit.

Same here. I've had good luck with the stock motor mounts. The onlything I see melting from the FBM kit is the FBM passenger side fan. I am going to try putting some DEI cool tape over the pastic that houses the fan motor to reduce melting... Maybe that will work haha.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by pmccut

Drivability was definitely #1 for me, and I appreciate your focus on that.

We discussed what power my car made on the old smaller turbo setup - 353whp on a dynojet with stock OP and FP. Then we decided that at 15psi with a larger turbo, and replacing the OP+FP, we'd easily be able to hit 400whp. I never imagined the car would make less power at the same boost level

Hi All,

I think everyone is missing the point of what was being asked by the customer as we understood as requested by the customer. Maybe there was a communication error on my part as what was expected by the customer and I have no problem resolving it, but as I understood and please correct me if I am wrong (customer).

1. The customers number one priority was drivability, smooth reliable, perfect start, like a stock car.
2. The customer did not want to run E85 or more than wastegate pressure, just wastegate pressure of 15 PSI.
3. The customer did not mind what the final power number was as they wanted reliable, and safe to drive vehicle.

With all this info I recommended stock injectors for perfect start and drivability every time you get in the car, because as people have stated if it is not exact it annoys me. Calm down, calm down... We have the ability to tune larger port injected based cars, and have tuned quite a few with great results. As quoted below...

Originally Posted by Sterz

Guys we shouldn't just jump to conclusions, there HAS to be something else going on. Bill @DeliciousTuning tuned my car. I made 370whp on their mustang dyno (~438whp on a jet figuring 20%) at 15 PSI on e85. I have Bosch 1000's and he was able to dial them in like a dream, and not once telling me that I needed smaller injectors. I don't think he has a problem dialing in injectors. I think there is some information we aren't getting. I beat the living hell out of my car at the track and practice drift events and I have not had one single problem. AFR's are ~11.8 at wot and I haven't seen leaner. Something just seems fishy to me, I just think there are too many variables to go and blame the tuner. (and no I am not one of those guys who worships their tuner like a god and thinks all the rest are crap). I think there is something else going on.

As stated in the quote above, we were able to obtain ~420 hp on a dynojet (370whp mustang) on E85 at 15 PSI with a GT2871R turbo but on OEM 12.5:1 compression ratio. With the GTX3076R larger turbo I could see getting close to 450 hp on a dynojet on E85 with an OEM 12.5:1 compression at 15 PSI. For example we have tuned quite a few STI's, Evo's (similar low compression 4 cylinders) and we have yet to see an STI or EVO even with a GTX35R or GTX30R ever reach 400+hp on a dyno jet on pure 91 octane alone running 15 PSI (with low compression). Now at altitude (with amazing correction factors) or with meth injection this is just not possible at least not on pure 91 octane with no performance fuel additives. Usually we need to be around 20-22 PSI in order to break the 400 hp barrier on a dyno jet.

Now back to the customers requests. When we took the vehicle off the dyno we had the customer test drive the vehicle, to see how the power felt and the reaction was it felt the same power as when it was tuned previously on 91 octane but a lot smoother and easier to drive. As the customer stated above, previously it made 353whp on a dynojet, so going from 353 to 270 whp (Maha) is quite a difference. That is a percentage difference of about 30%. So in order to hit 400+ hp on that particular dynojet a vehicle would need to make just about 310 hp on Mann Engineering Maha dyno. So either we are using a super low reading Maha dyno or an extremely high reading dynojet. You take your pick.

There are a lot of miss information, a lot of jibber jabber from many people and a lot of darts being thrown just to confuse the conversation. This was an attempt to clear any misconceptions and to make an effort to work with the customer to clear any communication errors on our part and take care of them for the customer.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

[Deadspool]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl5aypht2r...507_155239.jpg

Compelling evidence.

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

1. The customers number one priority was drivability, smooth reliable, perfect start, like a stock car.
2. The customer did not want to run E85 or more than wastegate pressure, just wastegate pressure of 15 PSI.
3. The customer did not mind what the final power number was as they wanted reliable, and safe to drive vehicle.

1.) Absolutely, this is certainly what I stated. I wanted it to start up on the first attempt. No three-start approach like I was used to with E85. No giving it gas to keep it idling until it warms up, that gets real old real fast. You stated you hadn't been able to get larger injectors to start and idle perfectly, so there would be a sacrifice if I didn't switch back to stock injectors. You assured me we'd be able to hit my power goals easily on stock injectors, I was very weary of this but it was your assurance (and Mike's) that sold me on going back to stock injectors.

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

E82, 330whp (on my Mustang) with stock port injectors. 368whp on e82 with 44% duty cycle on port injection using Bosch 1000cc. My Mustang reads 20% lower than the local Dyno Jet. On the Dyno Jet Bill can make 400whp with stock fuel.

2.) At Mann Engineering, sometime around 4pm before you started on my car, we discussed what the power was on the smaller turbo setup, and you said 15psi would probably be more power than my goal (400/300), so there wouldn't be a need to use the EBCS (that is still installed). We talked about roughly what that whp/tq would be on the MAHA to ensure we didn't exceed the tq for the clutch.

I'm really just trying to figure out why it's so low. When you were done with the car we stood around discussing this for 10 minutes... You said the stock injectors weren't maxed, and suggested that the GTX3076R could be much less efficient than the GT2871R at 15psi, which doesn't seem to be true. Is this just because the stock injectors are maxed? Is the larger turbo really less efficient at 15psi?

In the end I spent a lot of time and money to lose power, add turbo lag, for better drivability. I don't understand why I can't have power and drivability

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by pmccut

You said the stock injectors weren't maxed, and suggested that the GTX3076R could be much less efficient than the GT2871R at 15psi, which doesn't seem to be true.

Absolutely and unequivocally NOT true. The GTX3076R outshines the GTX28 throughout, but even moreso when approaching 15+ psi is when it REALLY shines.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by pmccut

1.) Absolutely, this is certainly what I stated. I wanted it to start up on the first attempt. No three-start approach like I was used to with E85. No giving it gas to keep it idling until it warms up, that gets real old real fast. You stated you hadn't been able to get larger injectors to start and idle perfectly, so there would be a sacrifice if I didn't switch back to stock injectors. You assured me we'd be able to hit my power goals easily on stock injectors, I was very weary of this but it was your assurance (and Mike's) that sold me on going back to stock injectors.



2.) At Mann Engineering, sometime around 4pm before you started on my car, we discussed what the power was on the smaller turbo setup, and you said 15psi would probably be more power than my goal (400/300), so there wouldn't be a need to use the EBCS (that is still installed). We talked about roughly what that whp/tq would be on the MAHA to ensure we didn't exceed the tq for the clutch.

I'm really just trying to figure out why it's so low. When you were done with the car we stood around discussing this for 10 minutes... You said the stock injectors weren't maxed, and suggested that the GTX3076R could be much less efficient than the GT2871R at 15psi, which doesn't seem to be true. Is this just because the stock injectors are maxed? Is the larger turbo really less efficient at 15psi?

In the end I spent a lot of time and money to lose power, add turbo lag, for better drivability. I don't understand why I can't have power and drivability

U can call up @FullBlown and get a motec setup for the ultimate in drivability lol. That's why I'm questioning so much, there's no reason that is should have lost that much power.

The Frozen North

[jamesm]

I tuned a gtx2867r (similar to the 2871) and gtx3076r on the same (very heartbreaking mustang) dyno recently, at ~15psi oddly enough (actually a bit less, maybe closer to 14 psi). the 2867r made 357whp and the 3076r made something like 376 iirc. the 3076r, in my direct experience, makes more power at every boost level than the 2867, from 9-18psi and beyond. at least that's what i've seen... ymmv i suppose.

[pmccut]

Originally Posted by jamesm

I tuned a gtx2867r (similar to the 2871) and gtx3076r on the same (very heartbreaking mustang) dyno recently, at ~15psi oddly enough (actually a bit less, maybe closer to 14 psi). the 2867r made 357whp and the 3076r made something like 376 iirc. the 3076r, in my direct experience, makes more power at every boost level than the 2867, from 9-18psi and beyond. at least that's what i've seen... ymmv i suppose.

I'm actually surprised they were so close. I wonder how the GT2871R I had compares with the GTX2867R at those boost levels.