Can I afford this car?

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Jac

All sports car purchases are unnecessary and bad investments.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I still say baloney. Why exactly do you think this car is any less necessary or any worse an investment than any other car?

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Because he's young, not making a ton of money, has a dog that needs to fit into the vehicle...

If you look back, I was not referring to the OP, but to Jac's blanket statement that ALL sports car purchases are unnecessary and bad investments. The BRZ may or may not be the wrong vehicle for the OP. But it's the right vehicle for some people, and I'm asking Jac exactly why he thinks this is a blanket bad investment for everyone.

Even so, I don't see your objections as necessarily reasonable anyway.

So what if he's young? Young people can't have nice things?

So what if he's not making a ton of money? The question was whether he can afford it, not whether he had to be rich to afford it (which he doesn't). This car is not expensive.

So what if he has a dog? If he has a St. Bernard or a Great Dane, maybe it won't work, but I could easily fold down the back seat and put a lab or pit bull back there.

Originally Posted by kuhlka

How do you get them in and out without destroying your interior?

You do realize that your passenger seat slides forward, right?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Lots of reasonable options out there for a fun reliable practical DD (Celica, RSX, Tc, Focus, GTI, Miata), $10k should get you something that will be hassle free for a few years, decent on gas and when the time comes you'll get good resale value out of it for a nice downpayment on a BRZ.

$10K is not going to buy you anything reliable with reasonably low mileage unless it's beat to hell. He already has an old car. If he were going to buy another old car that he's not sure will last, he might as well just stick with the one he's got.

[Jac]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I still say baloney. Why exactly do you think this car is any less necessary or any worse an investment than any other car?

1. Most cars depreciate, a select few don't. For example, older air cooled 911s are increasing in value. A BRZ will definitely fit into the former.

2. All comes down to ones definition of 'need'. If you're a professional racing driver and need to earn a living then sure you need a BRZ. But if you have a desk job and already have a daily then purchasing a BRZ is completely superfluous.

Doesn't mean that we don't have non-essential needs. For example i like to drink beer but i don't need to.

If you still want to debate feel free to PM me, we're going off-topic.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by kberkel

I agree, especially with the 2nd car. You'll be stretched real thin. You'll love the car, but its never fun spending at full capacity.

Id wait a bit and maybe try to buy one around 20k miles.

This is very good advice.

[Churnobyl]

1. Student loans are some of the cheapest money you will ever borrow, sounds like you get that, so leverage it.

2. If you think you will be tight on this, grab some extra work, There are money making opportunities all over. consider doing that before you buy. The American Dream TV edition (Two cars, a 350k House and 4 weeks of vacation) isn't guaranteed to everyone the minute they turn 18. Its available to you if you work hard. As a single individual you can conservatively add $200-$500 monthly income and cover much or all of your payment. I don't know your school background, But lets assume its a translatable skill-set that affords you second job opportunities.

3. DON'T HAVE KIDS. They are not cost effective.

4. Buy the car.

[Annahra]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Any 2-door sports car with no leg room in the back and a tiny trunk is a hobby vehicle, not a family/dog grocery getter.

I have a BRZ and my boyfriend has a Genesis 3.8 Track. Both are fabulous for groceries and road trips with the dog (I put down one of her freshly-washed blankets or bed to avoid the hair). He gets crappy gas mileage but I get 32+ on the highway. Get a smaller dog and don't have kids?


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[Jac]

Originally Posted by Annahra

Get a smaller dog?

[Annahra]

Like this! Lowered to match the car.

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[Tgionet]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

How do you get them in and out without destroying your interior? My collie jumped in with dirty paws one time and I nearly shit a brick. The passenger seat and driver seat were filthy.

Like this



Alcantara and leather are much easier to clean than cloth. I wouldn't let them in if they were dirty though.

(I don't really have anything to add to this thread that hasn't already been said.)

In the OP's position I'd make payments to myself until I could buy the car outright. You never know when life is going to kick you in the nuts and curb stomp you while you're down. DAMHIK.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Annahra

Both are fabulous for groceries and road trips with the dog.

Absolutely right.

I'm wondering what kind of groceries these people are buying that won't fit into the BRZ. Unless you're laying in supplies for a winter trapped in the mountains, that objection doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Jac

If you still want to debate feel free to PM me, we're going off-topic.

I don't think it's off topic at all, since it goes directly to the question of whether the car is affordable. "Affordable" goes beyond just whether one has enough money to purchase the thing. It also involves opportunity cost.

Originally Posted by Jac

1. Most cars depreciate, a select few don't. For example, older air cooled 911s are increasing in value. A BRZ will definitely fit into the former.

That doesn't really address the question. If most cars depreciate, then most cars would also be bad investments regardless of whether they are sports cars. What makes this one any worse than a family car or any other car? I'm expecting the BRZ to hold its value much better than many cars in its price range.

Originally Posted by Jac

2. All comes down to ones definition of 'need'. If you're a professional racing driver and need to earn a living then sure you need a BRZ. But if you have a desk job and already have a daily then purchasing a BRZ is completely superfluous.

I need a relatively inexpensive daily driver that gets good gas mileage. Ignoring for a moment that this is a sports car and just evaluating on price, performance and utility, this car does everything I need. Again, you haven't provided any real evidence that this car is either unnecessary or a bad investment compared to any other car.

Originally Posted by Jac

Doesn't mean that we don't have non-essential needs. For example i like to drink beer but i don't need to.

You don't even have to get into wants. I need reliable, economical transportation. I would lose my job otherwise. If this were not a sports car and were just an economy car that gets great gas mileage (34 MPG on my trip last week), is comfortable on long highway trips and costs less than $30K, it would still fit my needs.

To tie this back to the OP's question, I selected this car to replace a Jeep XJ as a daily driver, so I know the kind of problems his XJ is likely to be facing, and I know exactly what he would lose if he were to give up the XJ entirely for this car. Making blanket statements that imply that the BRZ would be a worse choice than any other car doesn't really help. It may not be a good investment for you or a necessary choice for you, but praise the gods that we are not you.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

$10K is not going to buy you anything reliable with reasonably low mileage unless it's beat to hell. He already has an old car. If he were going to buy another old car that he's not sure will last, he might as well just stick with the one he's got.

Are you one of those guys who won't touch a car after 100k miles? If so then yeah, you're right odds are you're not going to find a fun car with less than 100k miles for less than $10k.

When I was shopping a few years ago I was tripping over RSX's and Celicas in that price range, cars that are easily capable of 200k miles with nothing more than routine maintenance, yes the bigger services were coming up (water pump, timing belt) but a far cry from "not going to buy you anything reliable".

Even easier if fun is less of a priority, I don't think I could throw a rock in my area without hitting a reliable Honda or Toyota/Scion that's between 5-10 years old priced at under $10k.

Edit: Agreed that it's definitely cheaper to stick with the car he's got until he's sure of his needs and his capability of affording it.

[Jac]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

That doesn't really address the question. If most cars depreciate, then most cars would also be bad investments regardless of whether they are sports cars. What makes this one any worse than a family car or any other car? I'm expecting the BRZ to hold its value much better than many cars in its price range.

Just because a car depreciates less than another doesn't make it a good investment. A good investment is an asset which appreciates in value, a BRZ will not do that.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I need a relatively inexpensive daily driver that gets good gas mileage. Ignoring for a moment that this is a sports car and just evaluating on price, performance and utility, this car does everything I need.

Get a Corolla. Seats 4, better gas milage, cheaper, and more reliable.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Again, you haven't provided any real evidence that this car is either unnecessary or a bad investment compared to any other car.

Yes I have, i think you're just choosing to ignore my examples.

1. Cars are bad investments (apart from a very select few, like i've highlighted). Prove me wrong.
2. Other than professional racing drivers who would REALLY be better served by purchasing a BRZ instead of a Corolla/Civic/cheap 40mpg 4 door? Prove me wrong.

[Annahra]

Why would a pro driver be better off with this car? He's not using it for work. Does he have an image to maintain?

By your logic, shouldn't he drive the Corolla too?

Also coupes are practical for those of us who don't have kids and don't want to haul anyone else's kids. "Nope, sorry, gotta take YOUR car."

I don't think anyone expects to make money off of his/her 86, but it's absolutely a smart choice as DD for some of us.

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[Jac]

Originally Posted by Annahra

Why would a pro driver be better off with this car? He's not using it for work. Does he have an image to maintain?

By your logic, shouldn't he drive the Corolla too?

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Mr professional racing driver its going to lose a lot of races in a Corolla. He/she needs a sports car to earn a living.

[Annahra]

Racing driver in an 86 (even modded) is not pro. This is an inexpensive (comparably) sports car, not a race car. I assumed we were talking about how our hypothetical driver gets to the track.

(Sorry I hit you with the ninja-edit above, lol.)

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