Why did you choose the BRZ over the FRS?

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by JS + BRZ

This was one of the reasons why I opted to go with Subaru.

I didn't know you can't haggle price down at Scion. As soon as I was aware of it, I just walked away from the Scion dealer. They say it makes the buying process easier. But in reality, the dealers make the ripoff process easier

Not exactly... their profit per car is reduced compared to regular Toyotas (not Scions) selling at MSRP, but obviously it at least guarantees a fixed profit per car, contrasting to normal Toyotas where they just hope that someone is gullible enough to take a car at MSRP and get them larger profit margins though in most cases people will haggle for something far close to invoice.

It's worth it to them, since it's good for marketing for streamlining the process with their targeted buyer (someone probably 25 or younger who doesn't have real car buying experience and doesn't want to get ripped off, and it probably helps get younger people in the door), though in reality they just accept a lower profit in exchange for them not having to deal with haggling which makes the purchase process quicker and easier.

So they're not really ripping people off, you just don't get to haggle down to below-invoice pricing. So it's a compromise. It worked well when the twins first came out (as I'm sure many Subaru dealerships in the beginning were less willing to negotiate, and some probably even had mark-ups), but now that the BRZ has been out for a while, you can get one for the same price as (or lower than) an FR-S.

[tahdizzle]

Love. Because its what makes a subaru, a subaru.

[Annahra]

Uggghhhh I don't even like going to the dealership because when I'm waiting to get work done everyone else there asks me if I love my Subaru and then tells me all about their list of Subarus. I wanna be all like, it's actually a Toyota...

The Hyundai dealership was always great; all anyone ever said to me was, okay, your car is ready.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

It's worth it to them, since it's good for marketing for streamlining the process with their targeted buyer (someone probably 25 or younger who doesn't have real car buying experience and doesn't want to get ripped off, and it probably helps get younger people in the door), though in reality they just accept a lower profit in exchange for them not having to deal with haggling which makes the purchase process quicker and easier.

So they're not really ripping people off, you just don't get to haggle down to below-invoice pricing. So it's a compromise. It worked well when the twins first came out (as I'm sure many Subaru dealerships in the beginning were less willing to negotiate, and some probably even had mark-ups), but now that the BRZ has been out for a while, you can get one for the same price as (or lower than) an FR-S.

Here's the way I look at it:

In my area, the Subaru dealer is willing to sell the car for $1700 LESS THAN the comparable Scion at the same trim level. Not the same price. Less than.

The Scion dealer is not willing to deal, but instead tells people that because of "Pure Price" they're getting a better price because they don't haggle. So in the case of their gullible customers who accept that load of crap and don't bother shopping around at the Subaru dealer, the Scion dealer charges the buyer more while telling him it's less.

I consider that a ripoff. It's a blatant manipulation of the customer's fear of getting ripped off to take him for $1700 more than he would pay across town. And it's a testament to Scion's marketing ability that they actually have customers defending paying more for their cars.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Love. Because its what makes a subaru, a subaru.

The first time I saw that commercial where the mom says, "Because the back seat of my Subaru is where she grew up," my first thought was, "Because the back seat of my Subaru is where she'll start a family of her own."

[JS + BRZ]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Not exactly... their profit per car is reduced compared to regular Toyotas (not Scions) selling at MSRP, but obviously it at least guarantees a fixed profit per car, contrasting to normal Toyotas where they just hope that someone is gullible enough to take a car at MSRP and get them larger profit margins though in most cases people will haggle for something far close to invoice.

Source?

And I don't care if it's worth it to them. I'm talking from the perspective of the buyer.

[Erik1493]

0% financing on a 2013 leftover
My mom had purchased a car from the same dealership, so I knew they weren't shady and I got a deal
I will never own a Scion

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Here's the way I look at it:

In my area, the Subaru dealer is willing to sell the car for $1700 LESS THAN the comparable Scion at the same trim level. Not the same price. Less than.

The Scion dealer is not willing to deal, but instead tells people that because of "Pure Price" they're getting a better price because they don't haggle. So in the case of their gullible customers who accept that load of crap and don't bother shopping around at the Subaru dealer, the Scion dealer charges the buyer more while telling him it's less.

I consider that a ripoff. It's a blatant manipulation of the customer's fear of getting ripped off to take him for $1700 more than he would pay across town. And it's a testament to Scion's marketing ability that they actually have customers defending paying more for their cars.

If you read my post, I already confirmed that you could get a BRZ for the same price as (or lower than) an FR-S. No need to repeat it.

It's not a load of crap, it's Toyota's rule, not the dealership's, so get mad at Toyota for having that rule in place and for badging the 86 as a Scion for our market. Dealerships selling new Scions at a price other than MSRP (whether above or below) can get busted for that by no longer being able to sell Scions at all. So again, that's not to say that no Toyota dealership breaks the rules, but Toyota doesn't want them to, to the dealership's dismay, since obviously reducing the price could help them move extra units, while marking up the price helps them increase their profit margins. (Though I've heard of some ways they get around it.)

No one is "defending paying more for their cars," but this is the reality of the situation and how Toyota wanted Scion to be. Don't like it? No problem, each Scion vehicle has some competitor in another segment that doesn't have pure pricing policies. No one is making people, especially those wanting the 86, to buy a Scion.

Originally Posted by JS + BRZ

Source?

And I don't care if it's worth it to them. I'm talking from the perspective of the buyer.

I worked at a Toyota dealership for a year. Random job I felt like taking a number of years ago. Asked a lot of questions to the managers, GSM and GM and had a much better understanding.

From the perspective of a buyer? Obviously Scions are not meant for people who are willing to haggle for hours or are good at getting the best deals, which is why they are marketed to the 20s and under crowd who probably can't do either. But if you're a big boy and willing to do those things, then don't buy a Scion. But it doesn't mean that they're crooks for selling them at those prices.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Obviously Scions are not meant for people who are willing to haggle for hours or are good at getting the best deals...

And there's more of the kind of misinformation Scion wants out there. You don't have to "haggle for hours." I sure didn't. My negotiation took less than 10 minutes, and I walked out with a price at least $1700 less than Scion's "no haggle" ripoff price for the same trim level.

Scion, Carmax and these other companies with shady marketing try their best to scare customers into thinking that buying a car is a horrible experience that is going to screw you out of thousands of dollars. It just isn't true. The internet makes it really easy to do your homework so that you know what the car is worth. You pick a number below that and ask for it. The dealer comes back with a reasonable counter-offer that fits what you expect. Then you pay the man and drive away.

Of course there's just a little bit more than that to it, but there are so many excellent car buying guides on the internet that there is no excuse for anybody walking into a dealership unprepared in this day and age. So while the Scion customer thinks he's avoiding getting screwed out of thousands of dollars because of Pure Price, Pure Price is actually screwing him out of thousands of dollars.

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

It's not a load of crap, it's Toyota's rule, not the dealership's, so get mad at Toyota for having that rule in place and for badging the 86 as a Scion for our market.

I'm not mad at anybody. I avoided their ripoff altogether by buying the Subaru.

But even though you're absolutely correct that it's Toyota's rule, the dealers share in the responsibility. The manufacturer is not all powerful. Toyota needs the dealers as much as the dealers needs Toyota. The Toyota Dealers Association could push back against Toyota if they wanted. But why would they? They have a steady stream of gullible customers coming in paying full MSRP for the cars. They have a good racket going, so why in the world would they want to change that?

However, if enough people were to get wise to their crap, to the point that they began losing sales because of it, you'd see the dealers push Toyota to quietly get rid of Pure Price and let them negotiate.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

But even though you're absolutely correct that it's Toyota's rule, the dealers share in the responsibility. The manufacturer is not all powerful. Toyota needs the dealers as much as the dealers needs Toyota. The Toyota Dealers Association could push back against Toyota if they wanted. But why would they? They have a steady stream of gullible customers coming in paying full MSRP for the cars. They have a good racket going, so why in the world would they want to change that?

So then blame the consumers who buy the cars, which is where the power lies. If the cars were pieces of junk or complete rip-offs, then no one would buy them, and they'd take their business elsewhere. It's not Toyota's fault or the dealership's fault if the cars leave the lots.

[JS + BRZ]

Emailed around couple Subaru dealers for a day.

Got the best deal from this local dealer.

Walked in, signed the papers and drove off the lot in like an hour.

This is how people buy cars these days.

No need to seat around the dealer wasting time talking to dumb car salesmen in person.

[Chauntalei]

Until pricing/options were announced, I didn't care about brand, I just wanted the car.

Once all the details came out, I went Subaru because I felt it was the best value for money, when comparing Limited MSRP to Premium/FR-S MSRP. All the comfort/usability options for an extremely reasonable price point.

[Alltezza]

Mainly because the high school kids in my area are driving FRS' (16-18) and I did not want anything to do with that demographic because these kids had their egos higher than ever.

And also I got a much better deal on a 2014 Limited BRZ.

Sexy spoiler and fog lights! Also push to start and the interior in this car is A LOT better than the FRS. I do prefer the front bumper of the FRS over the BRZ though but some how it just grew onto me and I actually like it now.

[synchromesh]

Oppositely, I purchased a FR-S to save a few dollars. With talks of our minimum wage going from 10 to 13 dollars an hour, maybe I should have got the fully loaded BRZ. I'm not sure if I want to open up a Mexican restaurant anymore with a flashy Tacoma delivery-mobile..

[zinzan]

Originally Posted by Alltezza

I do prefer the front bumper of the FRS over the BRZ though but some how it just grew onto me and I actually like it now.

I did prefer the front bumper of the FRS as well, and it was a biggest factor in favor of the FRS when I made my decision. But I have grown to like the BRZ bumper front end now, and am very happy with my choice.

-Z