Why the Toyota 86 is a Great Car.

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

After you have been driving and FR-S for a while, driving another car is a strange experience.

Well put.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by FlamingRectumSyndrome

With a bit of lowering and a proper set of light weight wheels and decent tires, they certainly drive like a sports car, and may even look like one:

it does look good.

[Grim-Reaper]

I like the GT86 because it offers driving fun by RWD with Torsen for kind of small money compared to other cars available here in Germany.
BMW? Costs way more. Audi? No RWD. Peugeot RCZ? No RWD.
Mazda MX5 (miata)? Less stuff for more money.
Volkswagen? Boooooring and still expensive.

And then comes Toyota, mostly known for boring, reliable bricks and hits the spot.
Thanks for that.
Still smiling when people ask what car that is. :-D

[Canadian Greg]

Obviously there is something seriously wrong with your ride.

I can slam every gear without any worry of a mis-shift.

Of course 35 years experience goes a long way.

[Jaywest717]

I have always liked this car, but I didn't truly fall in love with it until this past week when I went on a 2000+ mile road trip from Virginia to Missouri and back. It was during the trip back...while driving on a small road through the mountains in Pennsylvania at around 2 in the morning that I realized what made this car so special.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by Jaywest717

while driving on a small road through the mountains in Pennsylvania at around 2 in the morning that I realized what made this car so special.

This is where I live.

[Skurge]

I'll add my .02

there was a point in time a few months after i bought my FRS that I was bored with the car. In reality, I think I was just used to the past few cars i've owned and basing it off those. then I pulled my summer car out(AP1 S2000), I still find myself driving the FRS more than half of the time, i actually started to drive the car for what it was...how it should be driven. and I love it.

I'm not sure what else to say other than its just damn enjoyable to drive.

[swpbrz]

Originally Posted by Jaywest717

I have always liked this car, but I didn't truly fall in love with it until this past week when I went on a 2000+ mile road trip from Virginia to Missouri and back. It was during the trip back...while driving on a small road through the mountains in Pennsylvania at around 2 in the morning that I realized what made this car so special.

This is key. I feel sorry for people that dont get to explore a curvy road with no traffic. This car comes alive and feels so amazing in its home. Its fun enough else where but in the long winding curves its soooooo sweet.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by Jaywest717

I have always liked this car, but I didn't truly fall in love with it until this past week when I went on a 2000+ mile road trip from Virginia to Missouri and back. It was during the trip back...while driving on a small road through the mountains in Pennsylvania at around 2 in the morning that I realized what made this car so special.

Originally Posted by FRSupra

This is where I live.

PA125


go there. now.

[trogdor007]

Originally Posted by FlamingRectumSyndrome

Of course, you're arguing with people who think that ditching a live rear axle for independent suspension is an act of treason. They've departed from reason, waving the banner of their deity named "horsepower" and drinking deep from the tradition-flavored Kool Aid.

I can say this because I've been there:

Some of us do eventually see the light:

I think you're being unfair and generalizing Mustang fans. There are plenty of Mustang owners I've talked to that have been clamoring for IRS since the Cobra R. Ford has done a great job perfecting the live axle and there are benefits to both types of setups (live axle better for drag racing vs. IRS for handling). I hate when people say "they've seen the light" or became enlightened when they switched to a different type of car. It's that kind of elitism that doesn't benefit everyone. We can all enjoy different types of cars and I think it's the love of cars that brings us together, not car X or Y is better than car Z. I'm glad you enjoy your new car, but don't rip on Mustang owners that prefer live axle. BTW I like your (old) car.

[FlamingRectumSyndrome]

Originally Posted by trogdor007

I think you're being unfair and generalizing Mustang fans. There are plenty of Mustang owners I've talked to that have been clamoring for IRS since the Cobra R. Ford has done a great job perfecting the live axle and there are benefits to both types of setups (live axle better for drag racing vs. IRS for handling). I hate when people say "they've seen the light" or became enlightened when they switched to a different type of car. It's that kind of elitism that doesn't benefit everyone. We can all enjoy different types of cars and I think it's the love of cars that brings us together, not car X or Y is better than car Z. I'm glad you enjoy your new car, but don't rip on Mustang owners that prefer live axle. BTW I like your (old) car.

Perhaps I am a bit harsh, but it comes from"been there, done that". The live axle argument illustrates it perfectly. It's a never-ending quest for more horsepower, generally at the expense of making the car less and less useful. You end up with a quarter mile monster that goes through gas like it was free, but there's always someone who has gone to even further extremes. And in the end, really, I could teach a monkey to mash a gas pedal. Real driving is a little more involved, taking planning and strategy and observation. A car that is optimized to work with the driver needs to do more than just accelerate. Too much weight or power can be a detriment. There needs to be a balance. I think that's the appeal of the twins. "Seeing the light" isn't elitism, it's seeing a larger picture, and being open to a driving experience that is more than one-dimensional.

[JSanders]

Well written and I agree 100%. Several people have made very good points on the car and the kind of people that own them, based on their previous vehicles. I came out of a mildly modded 04 STi. I thought for sure when I bought my 86 that I would never miss be STi. Rode the "I got a new car" high for a few months when, despite my minor modding to slightly improve the look/feel/sound, I found myself kind of bored. I had started to look into FI and such to make up for what I thought was missing. I loved the car but I live in a very flat area where the STi was a blast to play around with. But in February, I did an autox with it. I thoroughly expected not to enjoy it because I had autox'd regularly in my STi but man was I wrong. Nowhere near as fast around the course (also my first hard driving session in a RWD car) but waaaay more fun to throw around. Still wasn't fully convinced I had chosen the right replacement car though. I took a trip up to Saluda, NC and hit some mountain roads while I was there... That was all it took. It went from being this slow pathetic car back home to an amazingly tuned/balanced machine. I have the utmost appreciation for what this car is and have NO intentions of modding for power on this car at all.

[Superhatch]

I had a mod path that was focusing on staying NA, adding a tune (have an OFT E85 stg 2 currently), I/H/E (Perrin Intake currently), new rear end, keeping the 245/40 ZII's I have on, adding a crap load of suspension mods (some of which are already on) but this thread has really made me take a step back and ask if the mods I have done so far have made the car any more fun to drive. I don't think they have. Or more specifically the amount of mods I have haven't increased my level of enjoyment as much as I thought they would...because the car is a TON of fun to drive stock.

The E85 tune is nice, and some noticeable power, but it won't blow anyone away. The intake noise is nice, but likely doesn't add much noticeable power at all. The suspension mods did change the feel of the car in a good and noticeable way, and I like the look much more, so those will likely stay...but I have just as much fun on my snow tires as I do on my sticky summer tires. It makes me realize that the inherent fun of the car isn't based in power, and power will likely not make it any more fun for me. Aside from talking numbers at a car meet, my increases in power haven't actually made the car that much more fun to drive.

Gotta think some more.

[Wilso]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

There has been an influx lately on the topic that maybe forced induction isn't needed. People are talking, realizing. And it's not just FI for that matter. I have read more intelligent, more satisfying posts on the forum than I've seen since joining back in 12.

Members are starting to reach a satisfaction without a need, something I have experienced since day one. I believe there are two kinds of 86 owners at this point, those that have not yet come to a realization and those that know what they have. "Wait, what's this guy talking about?", you're probably saying, "There could be an infinite number of reasons to buy this car, and that's in the eye of the beholder."

While this is true, it's this influx lately... I think, no, I know that some of you want to come to a realization that this a great car. I want to share with you some information from my perspective. Yeah, a lot of what's written here is opinionated, but it might hit closer to home than you think. It's OK to buy this car for it is, not what it could be.

To begin to understand why this car is great, I'd like to go back a little, to the late 80's. This is when what I believe was the golden age of automotive achievement. During this time the Japanese in particular were locked in a development race (like what the Germans are doing today) which led to the production of a few of my favorite cars and certainly some of the best of all time. Now, of course there were also wonderful cars like the F40 and 959, but the big power those cars made came with big problems, not to mention a big price tag. Japan on the other hand were making sports cars for the people. Simple cars. Cars that worked.

One such car in particular, and in my opinion the best car ever made, was the Honda NSX. This car had the recipe for what makes a perfect sports car:

Naturally aspirated engine
Lightweight
Rear wheel drive
Affordable
Reliable
and most importantly a manual transmission.

I know that Honda wasn't the first to get the recipe right, but I think they had perfected it to a level that is unmatched today. I could go into more detail why I specifically chose this car, (the Pininfarina styling, the 23 step aviation style paint work for the aluminum body, the fact that 200 workers with a minimum 10 years experience were hand chosen to assembly it, and so on) but I want to stay on point to keep your focus. Honda's goal was to make a car that could balance usable power with reliability. There are no turbos. There is no immense horsepower output. There is no slap shift automatic transmission doing the work. It's a car that requires the driver to actually drive. The power has to worked for, the high revving engine has to been taken to the limit. That's what it was designed to do and it's all done at speeds that are sane. It's a true drivers car meant for people who are passionate about driving. Best of all, it can be driven all day, everyday. It can be enjoyed by everyone. This is the same recipe that exists in the 86. (I know that the 86 falls a little short in performance of the Honda, and some might say that 60k in 1991 wasn't exactly cheap but the simple formula is there.)


Memeber Trackrider54 summed it up best:


The NSX is a benchmark that has been lost sight of. Nowadays it's all about horsepower numbers and track times, and I guess that's what it takes to stay competitive in today's market. That's what it has evolved into. My friend recently asked me to watch a Motor Trend video pitting the new Camaro Z/28 against the Nissan GT-R. He said with a grin, "I'll tell you what right now we are in the golden age of automotive". I just could not agree less. I'd say it's the pinnacle no doubt, but the former belongs to a different time. Anyone can throw a big engine in a car, but it's what makes that connection between the driver and the road that counts. Today a lot of enthusiasts are persuaded by the next big thing. It's almost turning into more of a culture or status statement that it is about actually appreciating the car. "It needs more power", or "wheres the turbo" is commonplace.

Today we are fortunate to have a car like the Toyota 86. It almost feels criminal that it's priced so low. Or as Arron Robinson of Car and Driver said when referencing the FR-S with the Porsche Cayman, "And if you can’t pay it, feel lucky to live in a time when there’s such a superb alternative that’s affordable."
There is a reason this car has won so many awards. In many ways it's a lot like my dad's MGB. Just a blast to drive. Even a low speeds it feels like a rocket. When it was new, those cars were considered a cheap low performance car, but in retrospect they out performed any mustang in fun factor and drive ability and are readily sought after today. 200hp isn't much on paper, but it's more than adequate for a car that weighs some 2700 pounds. There is actually a lot more performance factored into this platform than I think even owners give credit for. I'm going to compile a list of some aspects of the car which a lot of you might not be aware of.

With all that being said, i'm not saying there isn't room for improvement...

...Tetsuya Tada is brilliant man.

When he was randomly chosen out of the blue to head the development of the platform he had the opportunity to go in any direction he wanted. He followed two principles: A back to basics approach and to create a car for anyone, one that can modified to each individuals liking. Modifying this car was half what it was designed for, that's where he drew the inspiration from the original AE86 corolla. But while this car makes such a great starting point for a track, drift, autox or what have you, that doesn't mean it isn't a great car already. It doesn't have to have a widebody kit bolted all over it to be good. It doesn't have to have huge wheels. It doesn't have to have a supercharger or turbocharger. All it's needs is a driver.

I encourage you all to check out the 86 Development Story here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5274

and if you have time I recommend this fantastic video review by Nino Karotta:

I'd like to leave you with a quote from widely respected automotive journalist Jeremy Clarkson;
"In traffic, you'll be in a car, same as everyone else. You're no better off than Simon Cowell in his Roller or that foolish idiot in the Nissan Versa. It's the same story on the motorway. But there will come a moment when the traffic thins, the police aren't looking and there's a nice bit of road ahead. At a time like this, a GT86 will make you happy. You will be reveling in the sort of thrills normally only on offer to the super-rich, but your thrill is better, because it's not scary. To make a Ferrari misbehave, you need to be doing Mach 2. To make a GT86 squirrel about, you only need to be doing 20."

Awesome post man! Love it