Shifting with a manual...

[Hot Lava]

Originally Posted by chrisl

That's a huge fear of mine when driving fast in a manual car (though the more usual mis-shift is to accidentally go from 3rd to 2nd while accelerating (instead of straight back into 4th). There are plenty of videos online of people doing that on a track and blowing their motor.

My thought on this experience is to not skip gears at any time and stop speed shifting. Since the shifters normal neutral position is between 3rd and 4th not overpowering it will naturally lead to safer shifts. New mantra for me "You are not a race car driver".

[stugray]

Originally Posted by stugray

A few comments:

2 - As for downshifting wearing your clutch: Downshifting properly with rev match does not wear out your cluth at all. Proof? - I can downshift from 6th to 2nd without using the clutch at all.

I didnt mean that I shift from 6th to 2nd without a clutch.
I meant that I can down shift through all 5 gears 6->5->4->3->2 all without using the clutch.

And you can skip gears up or down at any time and the transmission does not know the difference. Of COURSE if you do not rev match and try to make such a large rev change, it is harder on your synchros.

[1Cor10:23]

I do most of my town driving in 4th, coming to stops I down shift to 3rd (with rev match, I don't like excessive engine braking bust coasting with proper match is fine by me) and then coast in 3rd, clutch out at 2K then ride brakes to stop. I used to downshift all the way to 2nd but I find I'd rather loose a bit more brake than clutch as you'll always rub a bit coming down from that shift.

On occasion I'll heel-toe all the way down to 2nd and take corners with some speed

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Hot Lava

My thought on this experience is to not skip gears at any time and stop speed shifting. Since the shifters normal neutral position is between 3rd and 4th not overpowering it will naturally lead to safer shifts. New mantra for me "You are not a race car driver".

I skip gears all the time, and it isn't ever a problem. I tend not to be in a hurry when skipping gears though, so as a result, I don't miss the one I'm aiming for. The main time I'd be concerned with missing a shift and going into the wrong gear would be on a track, when I am trying to shift quickly and near redline.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by stugray

Understood. I only did it to prove that I was rev matching correctly.



Not true.
When accelerating normally (during the combustion stroke) the cylinders are under pressure and the rings are pressed towards the bottom of the piston.

When engine braking (during the combustion stroke) the cylinders are under less pressure (and vacuum for some of the stroke) and the rings are pressed to the front of the piston more than during the combustion stroke while accelerating.

It has been SOP to do as much engine braking as possible with brand new rings since before Moses (I think it was the 11th commandment)

I kinda see what you're saying, but I see the only difference being the combustion stroke. Instead, air is still being compressed and then acting as a spring to expand, and the only appreciable vacuum being generated in the intake stroke, which is the same for accel or decel.

Originally Posted by CamryDS

Okay this is a noob question..

When coming to a stop -- what are steps for "downshifting"?
Does this mean: Clutch in --> shift --> clutch out?
OR
Does it mean: Clutch in -> shift over to the appropriate gear (keeping the clutch in) --> shift down --> shift down --> shift down --> reached 10 miles or slower --> leave in neutral --> clutch out?

I don't see how a person can go from 6 to 2 in about a few seconds (10-15), while managing to come to a stop while rev matching into the gear as they slow down.

Eg. from 6th --> clutch in --> shift to 5th --> clutch out --> clutch in --> shift to 4th --> clutch out --> clutch in --> shift to 3rd --> clutch out --> clutch in --> shift to 2nd --> clutch out --> clutch in --> shift to neutral --> clutch out.... this is quite hard while slipping into each gear while trying to rev match.

I'm "downshifting" (as the 2nd example) It's probably bad, but I think when i'm coasting to a stop that would be the easiet way... if I had to jump into gear and go while i'm doing so, i'm in the right gear... so then I would just slip the gear in with the clutch and then go...

I've been driving manual for just a little over a year and i'm still confused when people say down shift while coming to a stop.

I use to do (from 6th):
brake --> clutch in --> shift to 3rd --> clutch out --> brake --> clutch in --> shift to neutral --> clutch out --> stop.

But I saw that was bad as well...

any advice here?

Practice.

There's two ways to look at it, downshifting by rowing into each gear (5, 4, 3, 2, etc) keeps the synchros from being overworked by doing a little work at a time for each gear, instead of jumping straight from 5 to 2, which would require the #2 synchro to do excessive work.

The proper way to single clutch downshift employs two techniques, rev matching, and heel & toe. Rev matching simply matches speeds before reengaging the clutch, and heel/toe allows you to apply the brakes (typically with the inside ball of your foot) and pivot the outer edge or your heel to blip the throttle. This allows you to brake while simultaneously blipping the throttle to downshift each gear.

[stevesnj]

I'll use engine braking only if I need to in an emergency stop or lessen the stopping distance. Otherwise I use the brakes for stopping and the trans for moving.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I'll use engine braking only if I need to in an emergency stop or lessen the stopping distance.

I don't understand this mentality - if you need to stop in the shortest distance possible, the best way to achieve this is to push the brake pedal to the floor as hard as you can (well into ABS territory) (Yes, I know, thershold braking can theoretically be slightly better in some circumstances, but I don't want to get into that detail at the moment). Engine braking will not add anything to this, aside from distracting you from using the brakes. In an emergency stop, I will always go "both feet in": brake pedal to the floor, clutch pedal to the floor.

[gt865]

Interesting thread. What do you guys do when you're approaching a red light and then it turns green all of a sudden while slowing down to about 30mph in neutral?

[1Cor10:23]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I don't understand this mentality - if you need to stop in the shortest distance possible, the best way to achieve this is to push the brake pedal to the floor as hard as you can (well into ABS territory) (Yes, I know, thershold braking can theoretically be slightly better in some circumstances, but I don't want to get into that detail at the moment). Engine braking will not add anything to this, aside from distracting you from using the brakes. In an emergency stop, I will always go "both feet in": brake pedal to the floor, clutch pedal to the floor.

Theoretically It helps to a certain point - where rpm matches transmission speed, then yes, gotta clutch in otherwise the momentum of the drive train will continue to push you forward.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I don't understand this mentality - if you need to stop in the shortest distance possible, the best way to achieve this is to push the brake pedal to the floor as hard as you can (well into ABS territory) (Yes, I know, thershold braking can theoretically be slightly better in some circumstances, but I don't want to get into that detail at the moment). Engine braking will not add anything to this, aside from distracting you from using the brakes. In an emergency stop, I will always go "both feet in": brake pedal to the floor, clutch pedal to the floor.

Always worked for me. Years of driving experience.

[1Cor10:23]

Originally Posted by gt865

Interesting thread. What do you guys do when you're approaching a red light and then it turns green all of a sudden while slowing down to about 30mph in neutral?

Rev match and throw 'er into 3rd

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[stugray]

I was just paying closer attention to how I drive while out getting some datalogs.

It is essentially impossible for me to take a corner without being in gear.
So it is just natural (and automatic in my brain) to downshift into the correct gear for the speed I intend to take on the next corner.

It felt very unnatural for me to coast to a corner, so I guess I downshift all of the time.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Always worked for me. Years of driving experience.

You aren't the only one with years of driving experience

Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23

Theoretically It helps to a certain point - where rpm matches transmission speed, then yes, gotta clutch in otherwise the momentum of the drive train will continue to push you forward.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

If you're braking to the point of ABS, it won't do a thing other than distract you. You're already at the limits of grip on all 4 wheels, so if you're adding braking force by engine braking, the ABS will let off the brakes in the back to compensate (to keep them from locking up). Now, if you're good at it (not letting off at all on the brakes when downshifting, and heel-toeing properly), it won't hurt things either, but I don't see any reason to do it when it doesn't shorten your stopping distance.