4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[Rampage]

If they can bring the new 2.0 Liter car in at around 2200 LBs with160-175 HP it will give the twins fits on the street as well as track and autox courses. They would have to build in enough interior room for 6'2" in order to get me really interested. Otherwise, my Spyder can still only really be replaced by a FR-S.

[Boxer486]

Not too many visual differences other than the electric steering and some refinements.

New

Old

[ProjectGT86]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Big questions remain, the skyactiv is still a question mark when it comes to performance, the Miata has always used a workhorse engine, nothing terribly exciting, but the reliability was such that owners have been flogging them relentlessly for 25 years now.

The second question is the kodo design, Mazda's designs usually elicit two responses as of late: "Ew" or "I could live with that" depending on who you talk to.

Edit: I'm really optimistic, seems to be the biggest jump in technology the Miata has ever had, glad to hear that there's still optimism of weight loss.

Well alfa Romeo is designing the shape so........

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atropine

The SkyActive fear is that with a compression ratio around 14 to 1...aftermarket FI will not be an option...

Mazda is shooting for MPG...not HP...

Not sure I agree with that philosophy on a sports car...

Sorry but that has to be one of the stupider things I've read on a forum. A high compression ratio gives you more power in the same engine. They are very much shooting for hp. Are Porsche, Subaru, Ferrari, etc. all shooting for mpg instead of hp by having 12.5+ compression ratios? I guess all engines should come with 8:1 compression so you can safely run 3 bar boost if you might want to, nevermind that the engine makes 15% less power without boost.

Anyways back on topic sort of, the 14:1 CR plus the fact that it doesn't make any more power than your usual 2L engine makes me suspect that with a higher lift cam and tuned intake manifold you could probably get that thing up to nearly 200hp with a tune, considering that the exhaust manifold is pretty good already, even the USA version with the shorter headers. The FA20 can do 200hp with only 12.5:1, with a slightly higher rev limit.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Sorry but that has to be one of the stupider things I've read on a forum. A high compression ratio gives you more power in the same engine. They are very much shooting for hp. Are Porsche, Subaru, Ferrari, etc. all shooting for mpg instead of hp by having 12.5+ compression ratios? I guess all engines should come with 8:1 compression so you can safely run 3 bar boost if you might want to, nevermind that the engine makes 15% less power without boost.

Anyways back on topic sort of, the 14:1 CR plus the fact that it doesn't make any more power than your usual 2L engine makes me suspect that with a higher lift cam and tuned intake manifold you could probably get that thing up to nearly 200hp with a tune, considering that the exhaust manifold is pretty good already, even the USA version with the shorter headers. The FA20 can do 200hp with only 12.5:1, with a slightly higher rev limit.

If the compression is too high...forced induction is extremely dangerous.

This means...if the engine comes with 165 HP and 14:1 compression...there will not be easy ways to increase power with aftermarket.

This is why its easier to get an LS Motor to increase 30% of its HP.

The FA20 is a great engine...but it is a ticking time bomb if the supercharger or turbo isn't tuned right.

On a less high strung engine...you can have "knock" and tune the knock out...

On a high compression engine...you get knock...and then you have a blown engine.

Also...one thing I didn't write because I didn't think people would be interested...

The SkyActive engines are really neat...but odd. Odd shaped pistons...over square...long stroke...etc etc.

Long story short...it will be a solid engine...but not an engine that I think belongs in a sports car. It will have a low Redline and is notoriously hard to tune (aftermarket).

Actually maybe this makes my concerns easier...

The SkyActive engines are supposedly low revving, impossible to tune engines. Very proprietary...you aren't a header and tune from 25 HP...

I really love Miatas...I just fear too much tech may kinda limit the ceiling of the new Miata. (that make sense?)

[reni]

Please Mazda give us a coupe version!

It always irks me that the German sports cars like Boxter/Cayman/Z3/Z4 can get choices for coupe/vert, multiple engines etc, but the Japanese sports cars like s2k/miata/RX8/twins there is always only one basic car with the only choices being basically cosmetic...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atropine

The SkyActive engines are really neat...but odd. Odd shaped pistons...over square...long stroke...etc etc.

Long story short...it will be a solid engine...but not an engine that I think belongs in a sports car. It will have a low Redline and is notoriously hard to tune (aftermarket).

Actually maybe this makes my concerns easier...

The SkyActive engines are supposedly low revving, impossible to tune engines. Very proprietary...you aren't a header and tune from 25 HP...

I really love Miatas...I just fear too much tech may kinda limit the ceiling of the new Miata. (that make sense?)

True true true, but this is what we're getting in a cheaper car with an engine lifted from the rest of the lineup. As far as stroke goes, yes the stroke is getting longer on a lot of engines, but rods haven't gotten any stronger or lighter, neither have valves, and ECUs are getting harder and harder to crack.

On an older engine if you really want more revs it's comparatively easy, get one from a junkyard since there's so many of them, throw in one of a million aftermarket rod/valve/piston options, upgraded oil pump, and then use an Apexi PFC or Greddy EMU and do what you like for a reasonable cost. Now you have waves of new engines coming since car companies need to improve fuel efficiency instead of milking consumers with 10 year old engines, the more exotic engines are getting cut to save money, and the cost to modify the more economy oriented engines for performance is higher.

From a performance perspective it's not like we're going backwards, the old Mazda engines were all pieces of crap, and so were most of the Toyota engines and Subaru engines. The Subaru engines that made power guzzled gas like crazy, the 2ZZ was good minus oiling issues but it didn't come on many cars, and since 2007 high revvers have been getting axed one after the other. The newer economy engines have the same pathetic rev limits, but at least they have more hp and mpg than the old ones. Heck, the FA20 is 86mm stroke which is not short but the rods are super tiny, which is really bad for high revs.

[Atropine]

I agree 100%.

I really want to love the New Miata or the New Nissan 510 thing...

But I have a sweet NA Miata that is a blast to drive and cheap to own. So it gets hard to justify swapping out.

Certain cars out now just "nailed it". The Twins...amazing! The Miata...amazing. An unmolested 240SX (though hard to find) are amazing!

I do agree though...the new technology is better.

I just guess I like the idea of hot-rodding a little bit.

BTW I see you have an MR-S...I had 2 AW-11 MR2s...Loved those damn cars...but parts and reliability were just becoming issues for me.

I would love to see Toyota re-release the MR-S...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Atropine

But I have a sweet NA Miata that is a blast to drive and cheap to own. So it gets hard to justify swapping out.

I do agree though...the new technology is better.

I just guess I like the idea of hot-rodding a little bit.

The NA Miata is great. Considering how little Mazda has improved the drivetrain, I don't see why anyone would buy an NC lol.

I like hot rodding too, but I think the motor has to be pushed in NA form before throwing a blower on, just personal philosophy, so I like seeing the high compression ratio engines.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Atropine

the New Nissan 510 thing...

(Runs off to google the new Nissan 510 thing...)

Huh. That's... interesting. They definitely tried to stay true to the style of the original 510, but I feel like someone should have told them that the original 510 was not an attractive car.

[Sport-Tech]

Engineers commenting on the new chassis over at Miata.net are saying that is stouter than the NC's and should easily be able to handle greater power - and there is certainly a lot of competitive pressure that should move Mazda to give the ND a better power/weight ratio. The engine on display is thought to possibly be a placeholder.

Given the price for a PRHT version now (thousands above a BRZ Limited in Canada) they'll need to give it a bit of a power boost if they want to attract anyone but hard-core fans.

[funwheeldrive]

Cool, I love miatas, and used to own an NA. I've been spoiled with having two rear seats though, I don't think I would own another roadster any time soon.

[mx5 2nr]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Good to hear they're doing well on the reliability front, but it still has to be a decent engine, they've all been compared to other eco-boxes, not sports cars. Might go drive one in a few weeks though to find out for myself.

Definitely take one out for a spin, preferably on a twisty road with the top down & at speeds above the posted speed limit, it will change your perspective. As an owner of a daily driven FRS (splits time with my truck 75%/25%), and a 24 year old NA (previously owned a '91 & '99); I still find the driving experience in the Miata a lil' bit more rewarding & enjoyable than my FRS. That's high praise from me, considering the only other cars I enjoyed driving more than my FRS cost at least 2 or more times a new Toyoburu.

[rice_classic]

While fun to drive, I don't think the Miata ever "nailed it".

Why?

Because my eyeballs still work, that's why.


Part of "nailing it" also includes making it reasonable to look at besides some stupid shit eating grin. She might be the perfect girlfriend but if you can't stand to look at her, it's hard to fall in love.

So even if the a new miata was almost identical to its predecessors but looked like Mazda's current KODO cars, I would enjoy having one.