Any of you convert from a WRX?

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by regal

Yea but the turbo gave the older WRX's much more torwue and a broader power band.

And lag, and heat, and weight, and clogged oil screens, and higher oil consumption, and leaking gaskets.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

And lag, and heat, and weight, and clogged oil screens, and higher oil consumption, and leaking gaskets.

True but DIT is the future. And back then the only Subaru engines that weren't blowing head gaskets were the turbo models.


Look at GM's new line of small displacement engines. Little economy car 1.6L DIT has 173hp and 200ft-lbs torque. Its a budget engine, then they step it up from there same engine just different configurations. To be honest I'd take a 170hp 200ft/lb engine over the FA20 rev wannabe.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by regal

back then the only Subaru engines that weren't blowing head gaskets were the turbo models.

Well they sure fixed that by applying head gasket failure to the entire range.

I disagree that DIT is the future, it's a stop gap only coming about due to new CAFE mandates and the crap economy. It's not a performance decision but a fuel economy and budgetary pressure on manufacturers. Other innovations and technology will make DIT less of an attractive alternative except for cheap ass cars that have no budget to play with. The only way DIT will ensure a place in the future is if manufacturers perfect non parasitic prespooling technologies.

Yes we know you like your turbo lag, you can keep it to yourself as far as I'm concerned. My EJ25 turbo is the most boring and frustrating engine in my garage and I have 28 total cylinders to deal with atm.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Well they sure fixed that by applying head gasket failure to the entire range.

I disagree that DIT is the future, it's a stop gap only coming about due to new CAFE mandates and the crap economy. It's not a performance decision but a fuel economy and budgetary pressure on manufacturers. Other innovations and technology will make DIT less of an attractive alternative except for cheap ass cars that have no budget to play with. The only way DIT will ensure a place in the future is if manufacturers perfect non parasitic prespooling technologies.

Yes we know you like your turbo lag, you can keep it to yourself as far as I'm concerned. My EJ25 turbo is the most boring and frustrating engine in my garage and I have 28 total cylinders to deal with atm.

Well I don't like turbo lag. Few people have driven factory pos disp. supercharged engine, that's my favorite very responsive. With the FA20 we were all expecting a responsive reving NA, instead we got a torque dip that is just as extreme as turbo lag. Nothing like the F20 or 2zz. The best I can say about it is good low rpm cruising/mpg.


DIT is the future. The new one from GM is 1.6L, an engine that small with a little turbo and the high comp ratio allowed by DIT gives you responsiveness. Have you driven one a DIT powered car? They do impress. You may be talking about super cars or close to it. I'm talking about budget cars like our twins. GM got a ton of money and that's the tech they invested in, its here to stay. The electric stuff will be far out of reach ($'s) for years.

[Boxer486]

Lol, GM investments? How's all that money they dumped into the Northstar V8 working out for them these days?

I could give a rat's ass about a company run by accountants whose keys fall out of the ignition.

If you think that 1.6L will ever replace their LS you are sorely mistaken. You also make it seem like DIT is remotely close to twin scroll or variable geometry tech, it isn't. It also doesn't fix all the problems and complexity you bring with a turbo. You aren't getting rid of that heat, that extra plumbing (V-mounted works but obviously that doesn't apply to your point at all) the extra weight, added maintenance, lack of throttle control with lag and surge.

So you don't like the tune on the FA20 stock so you think all NA motors need to be scrapped for boost? That's a leap. Turbos are not a magic bullet, they are a choice of compromises. There are some things boost just can't replace (like firing cycles for one). Not to mention reliable scalability of boost is still ultimately dependent on the displacement of the engine.

Like I said, the only reason anyone is going to small displacement DIT is to make/save $$ due to environmental and economic pressures. The turbo has been around a long, long time, there's a reason it's only becoming more popular now. Look at the last time 1.6L turbos were popular, there was an energy crisis. Go figure, history repeats itself. I wouldn't rely on that crystal ball of yours too much.

If anything, electric motors will replace what you call 'the future' soon enough.

[newports]

Wow this thread blew up.

99% of responses are that most of you guys are so happy with the brz even with the lower hp and rwd only.

that's awesome.

Even guys coming from sti's, evos, and s2k!

Good shit. Keep it going guys

[SirBrass]

Torque dip is entirely fixable with tune and headers. It's not an engine design issue, just a header and tune issue.

[boucher]

I'll play in the "I used to have a WRX" thread.


2004 WRX:
Perrin intake
Blitz Nur-spec catback
Injen downpipe
Godspeed TMIC
Mishimoto radiator
Perrin fuel rails
Cobb AP stg 2 reflash
BC coilovers
STi rear swaybar
Kartbooy endlinks
STi blue interior swap

As much as I loved that car, I really did enjoy my FRS (BRZ now) more. I have to explain it to literally everyone that knows my last car was a wrx. It's just more fun.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Lol, GM investments? How's all that money they dumped into the Northstar V8 working out for them these days?

I could give a rat's ass about a company run by accountants whose keys fall out of the ignition.

.

I'm glad we have a guy so smarter than the second largest auto maker in the world. I mean even Porsche is moving DIT, look at how many companies are going that direction.


On a clear day you can see GM, Jim Delorean. No and I mean no one has GM figured out they have done just as many good as bad things (don't get me wrong I wouldn't buy one.)


Electric motors are heavy and expensive to implement, I think we are talking about two different future lengths.


Even BMW has had success with DIT, and it has trickled down to affordable cars like the Forester FA20T.


I'll give you this Toyota hasn't jumped on the bandwagon, but signs are that they need to in order to remain competitive. I agree that DIT was spawned by CAFE but its here to stay and IMHO better than the sluggish NA FA20.


What other choice do they have? A 300 lb $10k+ electric motor/battery, or a minor adjustment of the existing FA20T. An electric motor twin would be a novelty and sell in such low volume being over priced. An FA20T rev 2 would cost just about nothing over the D$-S FA20 imho.


As you said with Café increasing displacement isn't an option, they didn't go over 2L in the new STi.


All auto companies are run by accountants btw. And I think the main reason the FA20T isn't std is warranty and increased insurance premiums.

[Boxer486]

What? The new STI is the EJ25 2.5L. And that's not what I said about CAFE and displacement....

And yes, when it comes to saving $1, I do know better than those retards at the second largest automaker. Maybe you should buy their new 1.6L because they are so much smarter than you just because they are the second largest automaker, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

And no, not all companies give their accountants the same amount of leverage to make engineering decisions. Pretty much every bad move GM has ever made can be traced back to a bean counter (or just plain misguided pride aka Fremont).

Porsche has been threatening the world w/ a 4 cylinder for more than 3 years now. Porschephiles I know have balked at that calling it a Subaru motor so we'll see what sales and demographic that decision panders to. LeMans is yet to be run and they need to win to give it cred and we'll see if it ever ends up in the GT3. The 918 is using a V8 and electric motors. They do have semi-VW aspirations at volume sales.

[CARNZ]

Originally Posted by boucher

As much as I loved that car, I really did enjoy my FRS (BRZ now) more. I have to explain it to literally everyone that knows my last car was a wrx. It's just more fun.

Same here, everyones like "but you had an STi its so much faster!" Same old generic responses, the only way to explain to them why I like it is to give them rides thru the twisties

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

What? The new STI is the EJ25 2.5L. And that's not what I said about CAFE and displacement....

And yes, when it comes to saving $1, I do know better than those retards at the second largest automaker. Maybe you should buy their new 1.6L because they are so much smarter than you just because they are the second largest automaker, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.

And no, not all companies give their accountants the same amount of leverage to make engineering decisions. Pretty much every bad move GM has ever made can be traced back to a bean counter (or just plain misguided pride aka Fremont).

GM is so complex you have no idea, no one does. Read the CEO's book, go to work for them. You have to make money. Now Lotus was a company that prided itself in being run by engineering, now they are practically a subsidiary of the tax paid gvt. I'm an engineer and used to think like you but $'s run the world not engineering.


The new WRX has 2L, the EJ25 is being phased out:


http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/all...uts-in-la.html

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by regal

GM is so complex you have no idea, no one does. Read the CEO's book, go to work for them. You have to make money. Now Lotus was a company that prided itself in being run by engineering, now they are practically a subsidiary of the tax paid gvt. I'm an engineer and used to think like you but $'s run the world not engineering.


The new WRX has 2L, the EJ25 is being phased out:

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/all...uts-in-la.html

Don't pretend to know how I think, you've pretty much misinterpreted a lot of what I've written already. You obviously missed my point about being responsible and having a balanced business approach because you justy want to cling to being right in your own mind. You don't have to run a company like an immoral asshole to make money, and Lotus isn't the only company that emphasizes engineering. Stop making false equivocations to troll the thread already.

You're a little late to the party dude, it freaking April 2014 already.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...subaru-wrx-sti

"while the WRX uses the new 2.0-liter turbocharged FA 2.0-liter engine, the STI uses the old port-injected 2.5-liter unit."

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Don't pretend to know how I think, you've pretty much misinterpreted a lot of what I've written already. You obviously missed my point about being responsible and having a balanced business approach because you justy want to cling to being right in your own mind. You don't have to run a company like an immoral asshole to make money, and Lotus isn't the only company that emphasizes engineering. Stop making false equivocations to troll the thread already.

You're a little late to the party dude, it freaking April 2014 already.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...subaru-wrx-sti

"while the WRX uses the new 2.0-liter turbocharged FA 2.0-liter engine, the STI uses the old port-injected 2.5-liter unit."

No company is perfect, GM certainly isn't an neither is Lotus. I agree a balanced approach is best but these days the bean counters have taken over whether we like it or not. The WRX with the 2L FA20T is the perfect example of how well a small displacement low displacement 4 cylinder can have great performance.


But I guess that is just trolling to you, I think its hard proof that this is the future for budget performance and good engineering takes cost in account. As far as the STI, I did mean WRX the subject of the thread, but what do you think will be in the EJ25's place when that engine is no longer produced? You're right I don't see where your coming from.