|
Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
03-25-2014, 01:15 PM | #15 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In regards to having a header on a FI SC setup, I posted this awhile back ~ Ref : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47101 In that even the ELs do little for SCs, sans a tad in the mid-range and top end. That experiment was conducted on the same car with the same fuel with and without the header, FYI. Regards! Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC |
||||
The Following User Says Thank You to Drift-Office For This Useful Post: | djdnz (03-25-2014) |
03-25-2014, 01:21 PM | #16 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,046
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,889 Times in 2,902 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
03-25-2014, 01:24 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Drift-Office For This Useful Post: | Calum (03-25-2014) |
03-25-2014, 01:30 PM | #18 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,046
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,889 Times in 2,902 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to OrbitalEllipses For This Useful Post: | Drift-Office (03-25-2014) |
03-25-2014, 01:34 PM | #19 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: 2010 MS3
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,820
Thanks: 1,180
Thanked 1,161 Times in 597 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Thanks a lot for the effort you guys put in for our cars.
Appreciate it! |
The Following User Says Thank You to JS + BRZ For This Useful Post: | Drift-Office (03-25-2014) |
03-25-2014, 02:55 PM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: 2013 DGM Subaru BRZ (Subie #9)
Location: ATL, US
Posts: 2,667
Thanks: 123
Thanked 860 Times in 552 Posts
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
On this car with a smallish turbo like the AVO/Greddy/etc. above 3000RPM you are going to make more boost than the electric SC almost instantly so it becomes kind of meaningless except at very low RPMs. With a large turbo I would use it to keep the turbo spooled off-boost but things start to get complicated pretty quickly. |
|
03-25-2014, 03:46 PM | #21 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Attitude
Location: MD
Posts: 10,046
Thanks: 884
Thanked 4,889 Times in 2,902 Posts
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
|
|
03-25-2014, 04:18 PM | #22 | |
Time Traveller
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS - Raven
Location: So Cal - Orange County
Posts: 3,705
Thanks: 9,530
Thanked 3,417 Times in 1,677 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
In regards to a compound charge setup, some info can be found here: http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturboTest.aspx Phantom ESC + M45 Roots blower. Here, the small electric blower was the Phantom TQ180 and the large electric blower was a Proto-Phantom TQ250 if my assumption is correct. Questions remain as the the usefulness of a Phantom ESC (any size) + Vortech kit, and if anyone will develop (possibly @shiv@vishnu (?)). Who isn't at least curious about the potential? Ok, I know some don't care. I do. Or perhaps compound Phantom TQ180->TQ250 or TQ250->TQ250 or maybe TQ180->TQ300. Any of these setups add complexity/cost and would require extensive testing before becoming an Phantom "kit". @Robftss may or many not speak to how likely any of this is to happen. Phantom ESC performance Couple things with the Phantom ESC. Cost and complexity are very low. I installed mine in 2 hours, and can remove it in 30 minutes for dealer visits. From a max WHP & WTQ perspective, on E85 (at $1650) the Phantom ESC will likely match or exceed both the Innovative & HKS kits in both WHP & WTQ at WOT. I mention this because, to OpenFlashTablet owners, running e85 is a no-cost upgrade. For Innovative-HKS, not so much. From what I understand @shiv@vishnu is close to releasing this tune. This creates a nice linear upgrade path, OFT pump gas, OFT+e85, Phantom ESC, + Dual Dump battery upgrade. Total cost for Phantom ESC (dual dump) + OFT is about $2300-$2300. Open Flash Header is optional and does improve both WOT & non-WOT performance and driveablilty. |
|
03-25-2014, 04:47 PM | #23 |
1337
Join Date: Oct 2011
Drives: 2013 BRZ WRB S/C
Location: San Jose, CA / Waterloo, ON
Posts: 1,134
Thanks: 776
Thanked 482 Times in 269 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Great comparison, thank you very much Bob! Wish I was closer so I could get you to do some tuning for me!
|
03-25-2014, 05:41 PM | #24 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,537
Thanks: 8,930
Thanked 14,187 Times in 6,839 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Jackson kit makes more power, but you choose the Kraftwerks kit because it has 3-5 degree lower intake temps? You already eliminated the header as a source for more power. If cooling makes all the difference, then why does the Kraftwerks kit make *less power* with a 3-5 degree lower intake temp? Lets not forget the Kraftwerks setup is also spinning the blower to a higher RPM. Isn't the end result what really matters, not a negligible (less than 1% absolute) temperature difference? If it's function over form, shouldn't the kit that makes the most power for the same price, without any issues, be the kit of choice? Last edited by CSG Mike; 03-26-2014 at 03:41 PM. |
||
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: |
03-25-2014, 06:01 PM | #25 |
Old...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: Subaru
Location: Invisible
Posts: 88
Thanks: 76
Thanked 40 Times in 27 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
(nm---found it. Mercedes M45 in the Wild Weasel link.)
__________________
Last edited by Subzero; 03-25-2014 at 06:18 PM. |
03-25-2014, 06:06 PM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Yes, the JRSC kit with an EL header makes more power than the KWSC kit thru 4500 - 6500 RPM . However, I don't feel that was warranted given the extra $1100 for the HKS EL header and if that was the case, I'd surely go to a turbo charged setup with that overall cost, hence the price to performance ratio. I haven't eliminated the header as a source of power in your respect Mike, I've only stated that it doesn't yield enough to warrant any of the EL prices when used in conjunction with any of the SC setups. Truth be told., both KWSC setups that I tuned had the same Nameless OP / FP combo with the STOCK OEM Mid-Pipe and an axle back exhaust. Had I had a proper 3 inch setup back there, I could probably have yielded somewhat similar results in that RPM range. Therefore, given what we've seen performance wise and the cooler temps plus the lower costs of investment with the KWSC kit, that would be my choice. Of course, we'll be getting a KWSC kit with a header here soon, and that would be more of an apples to apples comparison, though I don't think it would vary too far from the norm, unless this new header becomes the game changer. Still, if I had to buy a SC kit plus header (and in the Innovate's case, plus intercooler) - I'd rather buy a TC setup, which I already have. Cheers, Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC |
|
03-25-2014, 06:19 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,537
Thanks: 8,930
Thanked 14,187 Times in 6,839 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
|
Have you tuned either kit since those kits featured in the dynos? These same dynos are the ones that were available since last year.
Have you tuned both kits on otherwise stock powertrains? I'd be interested in seeing an apples to apples comparison. You'd have to agree that 3-5 degrees could be variance in ambient temps, or even within the range of error. |
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post: | ATL BRZ (03-26-2014) |
03-25-2014, 06:45 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,086
Thanks: 526
Thanked 1,614 Times in 726 Posts
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Drift-Office : UEL Shootout! (Borla vs JDL vs RWorks) | Drift-Office | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 74 | 06-02-2015 06:50 PM |
Drift-Office : 86 Nights #2! | Drift-Office | Northwest | 72 | 10-23-2013 03:39 AM |
Drift-Office : Vortech SC with and without Header - Case Study / Discussion? | Drift-Office | Forced Induction | 14 | 09-27-2013 09:16 AM |
Drift-Office : Vortech / HKS EL / Perrin / Greddy Installed & Tuned! | Drift-Office | Forced Induction | 8 | 09-03-2013 06:20 PM |
Drift-Office : Vortech / Perrin Combo Installed & Tuned! | Drift-Office | Forced Induction | 44 | 08-06-2013 06:37 PM |