Tada Tetsuya Announces Updated 86 Will Be Coming... Soon

[Jegan_V]

Originally Posted by thill

Please sell your car and buy a Corolla.

I do find it amusing people think simply switching to a Corolla will make teething or 1st year problems simply go away. The recent crop of Corollas and Camrys suffer from oil burning or leak problems which can warrant a total engine rebuild, I've encountered quite a few of those. The V6 Camrys, Lexus, Highlanders, etc. especially had the VVT-i oil line leak. I've seen a few 8th gen Civics with catastrophic engine failures. Now to be fair, the chances of this occurring are low, but they do happen...that's the same case with the FRS/BRZ the serious failure rate is thankfully low.

Among the problems that I've heard are most frequent or persistent on the FRS/BRZ, the only unique one will be the crickets. The tail light condensation, I've seen that on regular cars and rattles...I'll put it this way some cars aren't even built correctly out of the factory, so hearing a rattle on a brand new car is not a foreign concept to me...sadly.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by regal

You didn't read my post do I have to repeat it ? I will.

You complained about this engine's torque by referring to a 1.6L turbocharged engine, and a 2.0L turbocharged engine ("There's something wrong when <insert engine> has more torque").

Unless if you actually meant to say that you are satisfied with this engine's torque, and that there isn't a problem with it.
Let me know where I've misunderstood you, and I'll gladly retract my comment/offer an apology.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by regal

I pointed this out too.







It deeper than that INHO. I love the factor stock car as is too, today, this moment in time. But I truly believe there is truly something wrong with the FA20. When chevy's cheapest car (sonic) makes more torque at 1.6L than the 2.0 L FA20 something is wrong. When a Korean 4 cylinder Genesis coupe has 80% more torque, something ain't right.


This has nothing to do with being the fastist kid on the block. There isn't a turbo on the factory FA20 IMHO because there is something terribly wrong with D4-S + boxer combo. The engineers knew it. Subara said this platform would debut at 300 hp, well the engine just about did in a forester without D4-s but rather with Subaru DI. Being rated a don't buy from Consumer Reports is a big deal. When I bought this "Toyota" I thought 200k miles was a shoe-in. Now a repair that costs more than KBB looks inevitable before 100k.


Bullet proof reliability is what made Toyota overtake the mighty GM.. Smart low-mid income people save $'s until their 30's for a Toyota down payment because they want a car that never needs an engine or tranny. Then they drive it till they retire.


I hope we have that kind of reliability with the FR-S but it just don't look that way. I really hope I'm wrong.

Troll

The Frozen North

[regal]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

You complained about this engine's torque by referring to a 1.6L turbocharged engine, and a 2.0L turbocharged engine ("There's something wrong when <insert engine> has more torque").

Unless if you actually meant to say that you are satisfied with this engine's torque, and that there isn't a problem with it.
Let me know where I've misunderstood you, and I'll gladly retract my comment/offer an apology.

What I mean and quoted Subaru as implying is that the engine was designed to be a turbo but Toyota said no frickin way it won't meet our standards as a turbo, forget it and the d4-s stays. Then poster child goes around saying "I don't like turbo's.."


I do agree with this being an industry wide problem. Quality from the island has slipped. The F22C1 could handle a turbo with ease as a multitude of 90's Japanese engines.


As far as you and your conspiracy theory's this is a great car but get your heads out of the sand it isn't perfect, no car is. We the enthusiasts have to identify the problems before we upgrade.

[thill]

Originally Posted by regal

What I mean and quoted Subaru as implying is that the engine was designed to be a turbo but Toyota said no frickin way it won't meet our standards as a turbo, forget it. Then poster child goes around saying "I don't like turbo's.."


I do agree with this being an industry wide problem. The F22C1 could handle a turbo with ease as a multitude of 90's Japanese engines.


As far as you and your conspiracy theory's this is a great car but get ypur heads out of the sand it isn't perfect, no car is. We the enthusiasts have to identify the problems before we upgrade.

You bought the car knowing it had no turbo or supercharger.
You bought the car knowing the engine had stock 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque.
You knew the weight of the car.
There were numerous reviews published before the FR-S/BRZ was sold that publically the discussed the power, handling, etc, performance specs. 0-60, figure 8, quarter mile, etc. Many reviewers mentioned that the car could use more power, but that they did not care because the rest of the car was so good.
You should have test driven the car.

Honestly, you have nobody to blame but yourself for buying a car that has 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque if you expected anything different. It is one thing to state that you hope Toyota and/or Subaru sells a more powerful version of the car, but you sound like a broken record and you come across as a whiner because you did not do your homework.

Hopefully next time you will do more research and a more thorough test drive before you buy a car so you actually understand what you are buying.

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by thill

You bought the car knowing it had no turbo or supercharger.
You bought the car knowing the engine had stock 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque.
You knew the weight of the car.
There were numerous reviews published before the FR-S/BRZ was sold that publically the discussed the power, handling, etc, performance specs. 0-60, figure 8, quarter mile, etc. Many reviewers mentioned that the car could use more power, but that they did not care because the rest of the car was so good.
You should have test driven the car.

Honestly, you have nobody to blame but yourself for buying a car that has 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque if you expected anything different. It is one thing to state that you hope Toyota and/or Subaru sells a more powerful version of the car, but you sound like a broken record and you come across as a whiner because you did not do your homework.

Hopefully next time you will do more research and a more thorough test drive before you buy a car so you actually understand what you are buying.

I didn't test drive and my car arrives this week hopefully. I'm coming from a Celica GT so I shouldn't be dissatisfied.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Chad86

I didn't test drive and my car arrives this week hopefully. I'm coming from a Celica GT so I shouldn't be dissatisfied.

It's an awesome little car. People who don't like it either can't drive anything but a throttle or should have passed the Toyota/Subaru dealer and stopped at the BMW or Porsche dealer. If the FR-S cost 50K, some of the whiners might have a point.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Chad86

I didn't test drive and my car arrives this week hopefully. I'm coming from a Celica GT so I shouldn't be dissatisfied.

I have no doubt you'll be satisfied if you're looking for a lightweight, nimble sports car with great handling. That having been said, I don't understand the mentality of people who don't test drive cars first - I have to see how something drives before I would even think of buying it.

Interestingly, and related to this thread, I actually didn't buy a BRZ for exactly the complaint mentioned in this thread - it didn't have enough power in my opinion. When I test drove it, I absolutely loved its response and nimbleness, and its power probably would be plenty for me at sea level, but I live at 5600 feet, and most of my favorite driving roads are anywhere from 6500-14,000 feet (and the altitude isn't kind to the FA20s output). At first, I was just looking at the potential of modding it, but after looking at the price tag for going down that road (and the inevitable voiding of the warranty), I eventually just went and test drove the used Cayman S that I now own. I do still love the BRZ/FR-S, and I hope someday to try one at sea level (where, as I said, I suspect it has plenty of power for my taste).

What I did not do is buy a BRZ and come to the forums to endlessly bitch and moan about its power output. That just seems silly to me (and actually, the reason I'm still on these forums even though I ended up not buying a BRZ is because I still love the cars, and think they're great driving machines).

[regal]

Originally Posted by thill

You bought the car knowing it had no turbo or supercharger.
You bought the car knowing the engine had stock 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque.
You knew the weight of the car.
There were numerous reviews published before the FR-S/BRZ was sold that publically the discussed the power, handling, etc, performance specs. 0-60, figure 8, quarter mile, etc. Many reviewers mentioned that the car could use more power, but that they did not care because the rest of the car was so good.
You should have test driven the car.

Honestly, you have nobody to blame but yourself for buying a car that has 200hp and 151ft lbs of torque if you expected anything different. It is one thing to state that you hope Toyota and/or Subaru sells a more powerful version of the car, but you sound like a broken record and you come across as a whiner because you did not do your homework.

Hopefully next time you will do more research and a more thorough test drive before you buy a car so you actually understand what you are buying.

As I have repeated several times I love the car. But for one thing I didn't expect to buy a car with a CEL 15 minutes off the dealer lot. But I didn't panic' I was the first to post on this forum that the CEL issue would be taken care of with a simple reflash which is pretty much what happened.


My point about Toyota nixing Subaru's turbo wasn't that I was dissatisfied with the power but that I fear the D4-S + Boxer can't hold up to FI long term.


When the DI seals started popping it took them nearly 2 years for us aggressive drivers to get a flash for the TIR table. And yes I made some justifiably negative posts about that.


You tend to not read my posts, no car is perfect but this car is nearly perfect for me except durability of the FA20/D4-S. My only issue with the car have been engine durability and to a lesser degree the D4-S torque dip (my gut says the two are related.)


I praise this car on this forum as much as I criticize, it seems you only listen to the complaints. Without which there can't be improvement.


As long as things like the CR article don't kill the sales of these cars I firmly believe the after aftermarket will handle some of our issues. With enough sales volume there are endless possibilities: aftermarket DI pump, controller, injectors, heads. If we don't acknowledge these problems exist we won't ever see a fix.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by regal

What I mean and quoted Subaru as implying is that the engine was designed to be a turbo but Toyota said no frickin way it won't meet our standards as a turbo, forget it and the d4-s stays. Then poster child goes around saying "I don't like turbo's.."


I do agree with this being an industry wide problem. Quality from the island has slipped. The F22C1 could handle a turbo with ease as a multitude of 90's Japanese engines.


As far as you and your conspiracy theory's this is a great car but get your heads out of the sand it isn't perfect, no car is. We the enthusiasts have to identify the problems before we upgrade.

Fair enough! And you're right, the car is not perfect - I suppose no car will ever be perfect for everybody - but what we have here is already a lot better than most of what's out there.

I suppose that's the point of this car though, isn't it?
It wasn't meant to be "perfect" out of the box - it is up to the owner to make it into their idea of "perfection"

And just out of curiosity - what conspiracy theory would that be (I don't think I've peddled any of those)?

[Eminent Performance]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

I came from the S-chassis/sr20det crowd and my BR-Z Limited wants a damn turbo. In a couple of years when its paid off and the Subaru stuffs in the FA20DIT I will determine if its worth a trade of go aftermarket.

Yeah but here is the current scenario (for me). The S-chassis wasn't beloved / well respected when it came out RIGHT then and there. Same case with the FRS, although, I would say, the FRS has levels of refinement that obviously the older cars didn't.

So, I end up with 3 major choices for the platform as it sits right now:

1) turbo / supercharge the car - I have spoken to MANY major manufacturers directly. Including some that SELL their own kits for this car. The stock motor does NOT like F/I. Every kit, whether mild or not, is a crap-shoot and the motor needs a build and GOOD tuner. This is the easiest choice to go by, but you're either out of motor, or stuck with a rebuild.

2) Engine swap. There aren't that many kits out right now to make this easy as can be, but it is still being done and you could preserve a fresh stock motor if something WERE to go wrong. Even a relatively unmolested 1JZ would do major good in this car with a mild turbo - while maintaining reliability and, did I mention you get to keep a fresh, stock motor if something goes wrong?

3) This is the waiting game option. Even the 350 / 370Z took till now to become a relatively affordable drift-car option. But it had just AS explosive (if not more so) aftermarket support from vendors and manufacturers as this ZN6 / ZC6 chassis. Maybe we are still too early to see its full potential, but every day I drive my car to work, I dream of hearing a better engine running in there....

but all I hear are...



p.s., I still love my car. Don't get me wrong. It is my first "light weight" car based around handling / having fun and I am doing just that. But just as some of you are criticizing people posting about power complaints (which I can understand is annoying to some of you), I would like to wager and say that driving ANY car absolutely stock and being happy with it, doesn't really make you a "car guy" either.

[Sarlacc]

Originally Posted by Eminent Performance

...I would like to wager and say that driving ANY car absolutely stock and being happy with it, doesn't really make you a "car guy" either.

I have a strict policy about not being rude to people I don't know just because they express opinions on internet forums I strongly disagree with.

So I have tried to come up with a response to this that is polite and civil.
I have tried long and hard. I give up. I walk away, shaking my head.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Eminent Performance

I would like to wager and say that driving ANY car absolutely stock and being happy with it, doesn't really make you a "car guy" either.

I've been a gearhead all of my life. Motorcyclist, as well. My car is bone-stock, as is my bike. As a "car guy", I appreciate the FR-S for WHAT IT IS, not what I wish it was, and am just gassed that I can drive one.

There is something wrong with the people who dislike the stock FR-S/BRZ and need to "fix" it as much as some seem to, not us.

[Wise]

This car doesn't need a turbocharger. Sure it would have been nice to have the option.

The car is great at what it is meant to do. Add some aftermarket coilovers or springs a header and give it a tune and it's even better.

Back in the 90's there were tons of engine options for Japanese sports car. The Supra had an NA 3.0 and a 3.0 TT, the Skyline had an NA, a 2.5 single turbo and a 2.6 twin turbo. The S13 silvia had a 2.0 NA and a 2.0 turbo.

These days there just aren't the sales to justify the development of multiple engine options.