2013 Scion FR-S Priced at $24,200 ($24,930 after destination)

[Alias]

Originally Posted by Khyron686

You have a 2000 lb Mustang?

A GT is 9lbs/hp, and is a boat.

Your point? I never specified which mustang. I'm talking the shelby gt500

[gt86mods]

If we are getting into details, why even compare these cars at all? With a 600lb weight difference and a huge power difference, seems like it's not even worth comparing them if everything needs to be "like to like"

Personally I don't think 3k is that much, which is why I didn't even think twice about comparing the 3.8 to the BRZ/FR-S. That's just me though. Obviously some feel different. There are no cars to compare this thing to if we are comparing "like to like" if you can't bring opinions into the argument and just use "science" and numbers on paper then what's the point of comparing any car?

[Mr.Jay]

Every car we are comparing the FRS to doesn't really belong in the same class as it so I dug up this article

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/09/c...-detroit-2012/

Chevrolet's little concept of a light rwd car which they say that if built would cost around 25k

so FRS is still a better deal than its future competitors?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by gt86mods

I'm sorry but I've been on this forum long enough to know that you constantly call people out on their posts, I never had any intention to compare the cheapest GC with the base FR-S, I'll admit this. My point was that the Genesis is a heavier car and by using an extreme example got my point across better. The base 3.8 is less than 3k more than a base FR-S, and the Genesis comes with more standard features to boot.

I don't see the need to call someone out and make a joke about their argument. It's just internet bullying.

Honestly, I am not trying to bully you. However for a discussion about cars and comparison, I feel it is important to at least try and compare them as closely as possible. That would indicate the base 2.0T being a better comparison to the FRS rather than the 3.8 track version with the heavier and more powerful engine along with all the interior goodies. Just felt you were being totally unfair. You didn't need to exaggerate to make a point. Using the actual numbers would have done that fine.

Yes the FRS weights 600 lbs less than a base 2.0T. Some people will care and others won't. The FRS has 74 less hp and 124 less tq. Some people will care and others won't. It is all up to personal preference at that point.

[chate]

where do you guys go to really experience the handling of a car? I'm not trying to poke at anyone I just really want to know. I dont think of myself as a RAR power hungry driver, but i enjoy acceleration, on my daily commute, its a bunch of boring straight roads, red lights, traffic etc, and the smile comes from hauling ass getting onto the freeway etc.
I live in so cal, i go to a track day maybe 2 times a year, i'm by no means a racer or expert, so the straight line performance is really the only thing that I see on a day to day basis...because of that, i can see people's point who are like wtf 25k is too much because for that money, the mustangs and gencoupes will be, i feel, more enjoyable day to day.
So yeah, sorry for the long rant, but do most of you guys do A LOT of track driving or live in areas where theres enjoyable twisty roads?

[gt86mods]

Oh, and the Miata is 1k cheaper than the FR-S, guess I'm an idiot for comparing that one too haha. I'm so f*cking stupid. Jesus Christ on a crutch.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by gt86mods

Even if you compare the FR-S to the 2.0T it still has almost 80 more HP and well over 100 more tq. On paper those who are all about POWARRR will be like "The FR-S is a rip-off" but these people don't realize that they are effectively driving a car with 600lbs of fat on it. Yeah the GC may be a little faster in a straight line but it won't feel nearly the same handling wise as a result.

I'm sorry but I've been on this forum long enough to know that you constantly call people out on their posts, I never had any intention to compare the cheapest GC with the base FR-S, I'll admit this. My point was that the Genesis is a heavier car and by using an extreme example got my point across better. The base 3.8 is less than 3k more than a base FR-S, and the Genesis comes with more standard features to boot.

What are the predictions for the BRZ's price? If it ends up being 2k more for a Limited then that's pretty darn close to a 3.8's price plus the BRZ's base features are much closer to those that come in a base 3.8 GC. I don't see the need to call someone out and make a joke about their argument. It's just internet bullying.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by gt86mods

If we are getting into details, why even compare these cars at all? With a 600lb weight difference and a huge power difference, seems like it's not even worth comparing them if everything needs to be "like to like"

Personally I don't think 3k is that much, which is why I didn't even think twice about comparing the 3.8 to the BRZ/FR-S. That's just me though. Obviously some feel different. There are no cars to compare this thing to if we are comparing "like to like" if you can't bring opinions into the argument and just use "science" and numbers on paper then what's the point of comparing any car?

No car is like for like, but at least try and compare cars that are similarly priced. Or else I will pull out the Ford Boss 302 and say, "it is only ~$18k more that isn't that much for some people."

It is just totally unfair to compare the heaviest version of a car that also happens to have the most hp, but ignore that fact and use the weight to make a point.

The 3.8 competes against the G37 and other cars.

The 2.0T competes against the FRS and those other cars around mid $25k.

I have not heard of anyone wanting to compare the GC 3.8 against the FRS.

[xelmiradorx]

Originally Posted by gt86mods

I feel like most of these people complaining are window shopping and could never afford the car from the start. They are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Anyone who recognizes the money that goes into development, shipping, manufacturing & marketing would realize this car is a performance bargain.

But no, most people don't think that way. I really hope this car doesn't flop because the majority of people are too hard headed to realize what this car is really worth. This is a forum after all, what do you really expect. A bunch of know-it all whinebags.

u such a fanboy lol we recognize the car... we just think the car is a little over price considering the market situation in the us (comparing to other good cars such as a mustang)...well gl if you are going to buy it for me a so bye bye, so long, SAYONARA, Adios case...

[Alias]

Originally Posted by chate

where do you guys go to really experience the handling of a car?

I really felt the urge to answer this because a lot of what attracted me to the BRZ (along with being a subaru fanboy) was the promise of great handling.

I don't drive on narrow twisting canyon roads or racetracks or anything like that. There are some curves on my route to work and a couple roundabouts but that's about it. I enjoy driving but don't really have terrain like that or racetracks within a couple hours of me (except 1 dirt oval)

What I really hear and wanted from this promise of great handling wasn't the ability to take 90 degree corners at 800mph or run slaloms between the stripes in the road. I just wanted the communicativeness and feeling from the road and my driving. That communication and comfortable happy feeling that I get from a "good" car makes me feel happy and all sunshine inside and stuff. I just equate handling with communication, that's all.

[Oriental Life]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

The 3.8 competes against the G37 and other cars.

The 2.0T competes against the FRS and those other cars around mid $25k.

I have not heard of anyone wanting to compare the GC 3.8 against the FRS.

Get real. I get that comparison all the time. People are not going to look at a less powerful car if its the same money. Get a reality check. Everyone understands - bigger car needs bigger engine, and if the price is the same, so what is happening?

[gt86mods]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

No car is like for like, but at least try and compare cars that are similarly priced. Or else I will pull out the Ford Boss 302 and say, "it is only ~$18k more that isn't that much for some people."

It is just totally unfair to compare the heaviest version of a car that also happens to have the most hp, but ignore that fact and use the weight to make a point.

The 3.8 competes against the G37 and other cars.

The 2.0T competes against the FRS and those other cars around mid $25k.

I have not heard of anyone wanting to compare the GC 3.8 against the FRS.

How does a base 3.8 GC compare to a G37 that starts at 10k more? By your argument there's no point in comparing those two. Your extreme example of the Boss 302, a car that's nearly 20k more is kinda dumb too.

People will be cross shopping the FR-S/BRZ against both the 2.0T and 3.8 GC, considering they are all within 3k of each other. There isn't that big of a price difference. 3k is like 45 a month difference in a car payment. If you can get 150+ more hp for under $50 a month you don't think people will consider that?

An FR-S with options similar to the ones of a base 3.8 will be similarly priced, as well as a BRZ with leather, nav, HIDs etc will be even closer. Seem like great comparisons to me.

[Alias]

Originally Posted by gt86mods

An FR-S with options similar to the ones of a base 3.8 will be similarly priced, as well as a BRZ with leather, nav, HIDs etc will be even closer. Seem like great comparisons to me.

I kinda agree with what you're saying but it is making the frs/brz sound like a worse and worse deal in comparison (price wise, not performance wise) with its competitors.

[chate]

Originally Posted by Alias

I really felt the urge to answer this because a lot of what attracted me to the BRZ (along with being a subaru fanboy) was the promise of great handling.

I don't drive on narrow twisting canyon roads or racetracks or anything like that. There are some curves on my route to work and a couple roundabouts but that's about it. I enjoy driving but don't really have terrain like that or racetracks within a couple hours of me (except 1 dirt oval)

What I really hear and wanted from this promise of great handling wasn't the ability to take 90 degree corners at 800mph or run slaloms between the stripes in the road. I just wanted the communicativeness and feeling from the road and my driving. That communication and comfortable happy feeling that I get from a "good" car makes me feel happy and all sunshine inside and stuff. I just equate handling with communication, that's all.

thanks
thats really what makes me torn about it, sure its more money than the numbers can justify, but its not about numbers...its about how it feels. The test drive will decide...