Good static front/rear camber for street and track?

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by dp1

Over $20k are going into the car now (should be done by next weekend) so thanks for your timely and valuable feedback @Racecomp Engineering, @Dezoris, @mav1178 and @wparsons.

Even though I track only up to 10 days per year, I still want them to be special, even at the expense of tire wear on street

Car also needs to behave in winter with dedicated winter tires, so I might realign differently for the winter months.

I've been driving Lotus Elise on track for the past 3 years and I've seen how much camber, good suspension, rubber and track pads can help make a light momentum mid-engine car feel better and go faster.

Not looking for that with the FR-S, I know I have to compromise for a daily. I like the 10mm front/rear drop suggestion from @Dezoris. Wheel gap does not bother me at all and I don't want to scrape the front. @Dezoris, I assume the 10mm drop all round maintains appropriate rake, right?

I think that I will start with -2.5f/-2.0r for track/summer street, then evaluate after track use.

Should have also mentioned JR SC and AP Racing Sprint kit with Carbotech XP12 all around for track.

We chose 10mm all around to maintain extra stroke for street and that was the max we could drop to clear normal lifts and older alignment racks without using boards. It still requires caution over curbing.

I think given your driving experience and what you want running 2.5 and 2.0 is your best starting point namely for your track days.

[Dezoris]

Was thinking about it more today had the FRS out today and was actually enjoying it. Despite its nerfness, namely compared to the Lotus or even S2000, with real brakes, supercharger and good dampers you forget the cheesiness of the car. After not driving it and geting back in even on winter rubber I can forgive the front struts front and eco box build quality. Its just damn satisfying to drive.

And unlike the lotus you dont need hockey pucks and schematics to jack up the car every time to do work. Can still take it somewhere and lift it normal and run through a car wash without having an anxiety attack.

If you can post your build when done, tag me.

[dp1]

I 2nd that @Dezoris...it took me 7 months of daily driving the FR-S, sprinkled with occasional Elise runs, to decide that I should pursue (pretty significant) upgrades, make FR-S street and track friendly, and let go of the Elise. I am looking forward to a track set up that does not (like Elise) ride on a thin line between adrenaline of high lateral Gs mixed in with busy hands/feet managing slip, while thinking "if I lose it and have even moderate damage, it's $7k and a long wait for the new front or rear clam, and the car is likely totaled"...fortunately never happened. Elise is an absolute blast to drive on track, but I'm not enough of an adrenaline junkie to have to hang onto that experience...plus I do not like the amount of attention Elise gets. I've had a very good Lotus mechanic who did everything on my Elise so my overall experience has been frustration-free.

Back to FR-S...aside from great driving dynamics, seating position, solid stereo (once it's changed to the FR-S mode), very usable trunk space, rear seat that's small but available if needed, and reasonably good looks, I salute engineers who design a compact coupe in a way that four wheels can be carried to/from track. Also decided to go with automatic transmission...I grew up in Europe so drove stick for most of my life...and don't care for it in NY traffic at all...

I will tag you when I get the car back from @PrimeMotoring and update the build thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57693

Most importantly, thank you for sharing your experiences, I reviewed many of your posts before deciding on the build. Like both style and content.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Was thinking about it more today had the FRS out today and was actually enjoying it. Despite its nerfness, namely compared to the Lotus or even S2000, with real brakes, supercharger and good dampers you forget the cheesiness of the car. After not driving it and geting back in even on winter rubber I can forgive the front struts front and eco box build quality. Its just damn satisfying to drive.

And unlike the lotus you dont need hockey pucks and schematics to jack up the car every time to do work. Can still take it somewhere and lift it normal and run through a car wash without having an anxiety attack.

If you can post your build when done, tag me.

[dp1]

@CSG Mike:
"Track:

Coilovers: CSG-Spec Tein SRC
LCAs: none
Other suspension components: none
Alignment:

Front
-3 camber
0 toe

Rear
-2.4 camber (natural from ride height drop of -1.4")
0 toe"

[dp1]

@Racecomp Engineering:
"My ideal track set-up....hmmmmm.....

Coilover: JRZ motorsports 4 ways (with JRZ Bryan Hise helping us with set-up)
LCAs: Don't care, something with quality pillowballs
Other components: replace all bushings with pillowballs. Front roll center adjustment. Lowering camber plates. Lowering rear top mounts.
Alignment: -3.5 degrees front, -2.2 degrees rear camber, or in that ball park depending on spring rates and tires. Toe to suit driver. Caster to suit track"

[dp1]

@CSG Mike:
"We run -3 (front camber) based on pyrometer and wear patterns with 225 street tires. However, YMMV, depending on your setup."

[dp1]

@CSG Mike
"Latest specs as of today (09/03/2013):

Front
-3 camber
0 toe

Rear
-2.75 camber (natural from ride height drop of -1.4")
0 toe"

[dp1]

@CSG Mike:
"With wear in mind, I would recommend adjusting your camber based on whether your inner or outer edge (of the tire) is wearing faster. If the outer is faster, add more negative camber. If the inner is faster, take out negative camber.

Keep in mind, toe is what really chews up tires, not camber.

Everyone's setup is different, so everyone's alignment will be slightly different.

Do you have front camber plates? Are you comfortable with having a looser rear?

-1.25 front camber (can be done with camber bolts only), and -1.5 rear camber (within reach of your setup) should be a good starting point. Inspect your tires regularly, and adjust camber accordingly.

0 front toe, and rear toe to taste. 0 rear toe will yield the least tire wear, but also the loosest (least stable) car. 1/16" or 1/8" total toe-in may be a good compromise. AFAIK, the stock FRS comes with 5/32" total toe-in, while the BRZ comes with 0; keep in mind the two have a VERY different spring rate balance front/rear."

[dp1]

@CSG Mike:
"While you'll always get a little bit of camber wear, it won't really become a concern unless you're driving like a granny exclusively, with a decent amount of camber (-3). Toe is what really chews through tires.

You'll be just fine at -1.5 front/rear, but may want to consider slightly more in the rear for more grip under cornering.

0 Toe will be fine all around, although it'll make the car slightly easier to "break loose" in the corners; this is where more negative rear camber will assist. Having a *very* slight amount of toe-in will help the car "go straight".

For reference, the BRZ comes with 0 to 1/16" total toe-in in the rear (sample size of about 25 cars)

Also, for what it's worth, I prefer about 3/32" to 5/32" total rear toe-in on my s2k, depending on the setup, whereas I prefer 0 rear toe on the FR-S/BRZ. As always, ymmv, and alignment IS subjective."

[leicaboss]

So, my car was lowered on Swift Springs (1" drop) and I had front camber bolts installed (SPC), and lower control arms (SPC)...

The car feels horrible right now, obviously the alignment is completely off because I made a lot of changes, it's totally not confidence inspiring and I'm wondering what settings I should go with since I need to go in ASAP for an alignment. It's bad to the point where my traction control will kick in on a sweeping turn @ 30 mph - the nannies activating actually drags my car towards traffic, so it's pretty scary. Didn't even drive the car to work today because it feels oddly light and floaty...

Would appreciate any suggestions for all around camber/toe settings. It looks like toe is off too on the rear, it's pretty bad! I'm on stock wheels/tires.

Thanks in advance!

[wparsons]

What kind of driving to you use the car for? 100% street? Mostly street? Mostly track? If you're tracking it, what's your comfort level with a car that likes to rotate a lot at turn in? All that will dictate your alignment setting.

For a purely street driven car on stock tires, I'd go with no more than -1* up front and about -1.5* out back (stock is 0 front -1.5 rear). Go with zero toe up front regardless, and rear toe to suit your comfort level. If you like a car that rotates quick at turn in, zero rear toe is your answer, but based on what you've said I would go with stock rear toe in settings.

[Victor Draken]

Originally Posted by wparsons

What kind of driving to you use the car for? 100% street? Mostly street? Mostly track? If you're tracking it, what's your comfort level with a car that likes to rotate a lot at turn in? All that will dictate your alignment setting.

For a purely street driven car on stock tires, I'd go with no more than -1* up front and about -1.5* out back (stock is 0 front -1.5 rear). Go with zero toe up front regardless, and rear toe to suit your comfort level. If you like a car that rotates quick at turn in, zero rear toe is your answer, but based on what you've said I would go with stock rear toe in settings.

Isn't front camber suggested to be higher then rear?

like -2.0/2.5 front -1.5/2.0 rear

[solidONE]

[/Thread]

Is that a 'tow hook' attached to the bumper cover?

[TONYpepperon1]

In terms of street use... Will you see a lot of increased tire wear from -2 degrees of camber all around?