All about replicas: Corner-Cutting Commentary

[ZionsWrath]

Enkei just came out with knock offs

[XanRules]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

How much do you spend on a set of tires?

Usually under a grand.

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is NOT a cheap vs expensive argument.

It is about intellectual property and poseurs.

Rota and other knock off wheel companies only exist because of their continuous rip off of successful wheel designs.

There are other wheel companies that produce inexpensive cast wheels but they do not have a zillion internet discussions about them. Why? Because they don't look like Rays/Volk etc... And don't have Rota's internet bullshit propaganda machine spewing massive misrepresentations of their products.

ASA is a Korean company that had BBS set up their casting facilities. They are a good, inexpensive cast wheel. But nobody cares because they don't knock off top level companies' style.

It's funny how the same people that can laugh at and dismiss the blatant Chinese knock off companies cars, Apple products, restaurants like MacRonald's and KFG Chicken. But as soon as money interferes with their car style, it's off to Rota and create delusional self-justifying excuses.

Show some respect for the companies that are driving, respecting and advancing the industry by not promoting knock offs.

Word, I totally get this. I wouldn't buy knockoffs - I'm just saying, I also wouldn't drop $2,000 on a set of wheels, because I just don't care that much about my damn wheels and there's stuff I'd rather drop two grand on.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by XanRules

Usually under a grand.

Ok, that's not bad.

Tires are a disposable item. They only last for so long and then they go to shit and need replacing. What I find comical is the people who are willing to spend nearly $300 per tire on this car ($1,200+ per set) which will only last for however long, but aren't willing to spend more than like $800 for wheels that could last for the life of the car.

In the end, people have every right to choose how they spend their own money. It just sucks to see legit companies put forth so much effort to bring quality products and then for companies to blatantly rip off the design and sell a lesser quality product. Someday, there won't be any legit wheels to replicate cause business will have shut down. (Obviously, it won't ever get that bad, but it's something to consider)

Case in point, the Volk ZE40 just came out and Rota has already made an exact copy of it. Rota also has Work Meister knockoffs now. Kind of ridiculous. If these companies just started coming up with more of their own wheel design then, that would be much better.

[AznKirby]

Again, for everybody grabbing their pitch forks - we aren't "judging" because some people can't afford it. That's not the point we're making, here.

That being said, I gotta say I usually don't cheap out on tires. That's the one place I'd rather put a lot of money in. It's the only thing touching the road - wouldn't it make sense to have something that grips correctly, and won't send you flying into a wall? We sell a lot of tires and I get a lot of price requests for companies like Nankang, I always tell my customers to be careful with products like that.
Yes, tires get used up in a few seasons, but I'd rather be safe in those few seasons.

[dem00n]

Buy expensive wheels, so i can get them dirt cheap used.

Thanks guys.

[m.box.design]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Buy expensive wheels, so i can get them dirt cheap used.

Thanks guys.

We might have to go 5x114.3 hubs. There are so many spankin deals on used expensive wheels, most of which are 5x114.3

[Bones36]

You get what you pay for

[johnnie]

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is NOT a cheap vs expensive argument.

It is about intellectual property and poseurs.

Rota and other knock off wheel companies only exist because of their continuous rip off of successful wheel designs.

There are other wheel companies that produce inexpensive cast wheels but they do not have a zillion internet discussions about them. Why? Because they don't look like Rays/Volk etc... And don't have Rota's internet bullshit propaganda machine spewing massive misrepresentations of their products.

ASA is a Korean company that had BBS set up their casting facilities. They are a good, inexpensive cast wheel. But nobody cares because they don't knock off top level companies' style.

It's funny how the same people that can laugh at and dismiss the blatant Chinese knock off companies cars, Apple products, restaurants like MacRonald's and KFG Chicken. But as soon as money interferes with their car style, it's off to Rota and create delusional self-justifying excuses.

Show some respect for the companies that are driving, respecting and advancing the industry by not promoting knock offs.

It's not about intelectual property, if it was there would be lawsuits flying around. I see Rota, Rotiform, Fifteen52 all pretty happy selling their wheels all over the world. So i really don't get it. For me it seems in Europe Rota sells more wheels, quantity wise and money wise, than Rays.
So that argument only really works for very crappy, no brand replicas, that almost no enthusiast would own, at least no one that cares enough be hanging around the internet forums.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is NOT a cheap vs expensive argument.

It is about intellectual property and poseurs.

Rota and other knock off wheel companies only exist because of their continuous rip off of successful wheel designs.

There are other wheel companies that produce inexpensive cast wheels but they do not have a zillion internet discussions about them. Why? Because they don't look like Rays/Volk etc... And don't have Rota's internet bullshit propaganda machine spewing massive misrepresentations of their products.

ASA is a Korean company that had BBS set up their casting facilities. They are a good, inexpensive cast wheel. But nobody cares because they don't knock off top level companies' style.

It's funny how the same people that can laugh at and dismiss the blatant Chinese knock off companies cars, Apple products, restaurants like MacRonald's and KFG Chicken. But as soon as money interferes with their car style, it's off to Rota and create delusional self-justifying excuses.

Show some respect for the companies that are driving, respecting and advancing the industry by not promoting knock offs.

It's only blatant if the buyer is aware that there's a company that made the design first. Would I purposely go out and buy a wheel from Rota because it looked like something from another company, no. Would I buy from Rota because I have no clue that they copied the design, yes.

KFC, Apple, Chevy... These are companies that the average joe is aware of. I don't even know how to pronounce Enkei, or that K one that I think means king in some other language... These wheel companies may be that much a part of your everyday life that you can pick out their designs, but the majority of people have no idea who they are.

What is being advanced or driven in the industry? A 17 in wheel weighs give or take the same now as it did 20 years ago. I'll admit that we're thankfully gotten away from the triangle looking stuff, but that's subjective.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by johnnie

It's not about intelectual property, if it was there would be lawsuits flying around. I see Rota, Rotiform, Fifteen52 all pretty happy selling their wheels all over the world. So i really don't get it. For me it seems in Europe Rota sells more wheels, quantity wise and money wise, than Rays.
So that argument only really works for very crappy, no brand replicas, that almost no enthusiast would own, at least no one that cares enough be hanging around the internet forums.

There are more fake Rolex watches including 'sterile' versions made every year than real. Does that make Rolex the copy?

It doesn't work that way. It's who comes first.

Rota only sells because they copy existing style, and avoid direct copyright infringement (ie logo and name). If that style is from high priced aspirational brands and they sell it at commodity level prices to the masses, of course it will sell more.

What people often overlook in this is that they try to justify and counter with the cost to produce vs the retail price. Rays, Louis Vuitton and Rolex all cost more to make than their respective knock offs. But it is not anywhere near the astronomical gap between the retail pricing. So people justify it by saying that they are getting x% of the real thing for .0001x% of the cost. But that isn't the real point.

Despite the counter argument that the best (arguably simply better) cost more because of xyz reasons, it doesn't actually factor too much into decisions. The price, and association with status, is a more significant factor than the quality increase. Conspicuous consumption.

And that same thing trickles down the social pk adder, where styling associated with expensive products makes it all the way down to commodity priced goods.

Looked at two ways, who the fuck would buy tacky-looking Rolex watches and purses spammed with LV, if not for the association with wealth/success? Conversely would people buy the shit-quality knock offs of tackily styled products without the connection with the successful brand?

With wheels and such we have some safety concerns (Rota had a poorly handled recall in the past, but not anything lately), and performance claims (every pound counts!) but the reality is these are often secondary to the status association.

Buy real. Used if it has to be (I did). You'll feel better about yourself and will help improve the industry.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Bones36

You get what you pay for

No you don't. If you buy a Mac with an i7 processor and a PC with the same i7 processor you'll pay double for the Mac. All you're paying for is the ability to fit in at Starbucks.

[fatoni]

i dont understand why so many people care about what wheels other people buy. its a little bit like gay marriage. if you dont like gay marriage, dont get gay married. if you dont like cheap wheels, dont buy cheap wheels. all that said, i do kinda wonder how people can buy wheels that cost more than 10% of the vehicle price and act elite while having no problem riding on shitty korean "knockoff" coilovers.

all that nonsense aside, there are a lot of other factors that go into a purchase. those ultra rare volks are rad but when something happens to one, you are out of a wheelset for six months. not that cool

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Calum

It's only blatant if the buyer is aware that there's a company that made the design first. Would I purposely go out and buy a wheel from Rota because it looked like something from another company, no. Would I buy from Rota because I have no clue that they copied the design, yes.

KFC, Apple, Chevy... These are companies that the average joe is aware of. I don't even know how to pronounce Enkei, or that K one that I think means king in some other language... These wheel companies may be that much a part of your everyday life that you can pick out their designs, but the majority of people have no idea who they are.

What is being advanced or driven in the industry? A 17 in wheel weighs give or take the same now as it did 20 years ago. I'll admit that we're thankfully gotten away from the triangle looking stuff, but that's subjective.

They drive some things directly, but most is indirect. Top level racing needs top level wheels to not kill the drivers. Trickle down. I'm also aware that this may sound weak and evasive, but comes down to my other post above.

The tech trickle down is real, but to the priority is still the status, identified by the style.

People want to associate with success/status. Renault, Toyota, Ford in F1, NASCAR being irrelevant to modern American cars, etc...

But those who compete there, earn it. And if people want to associated with that through product or whatever, they are able to make silly financial choices about wheels if they can and want to.

It's kinda because racecar.

Knock offs ride on the efforts of others.

Mac vs PC is another version of the same thing. It's about status and identity, fitting in at Starbucks, like you said.

Knock off products are sort of the same, but some of the buyers get butthurt for not being accepted into those social groups (Mad JDM Tyte in the Rota case) despite being almost 'the same' the the knock off view. But in this example the choice identifies them as having very different views and possibly social class. So the haters hate.



TLR



Tribalism.



Heh...





(I'm studying this because I've decided to eventually make and sell highly priced watches...)

[utekineir]

In defense of apple stuff. Thanks to the neck beard fever if you buy @ lower than retail and resell within the proper timeframe the cost to own actually can be equal or less than an equivalent PC.

Apple resale value is tits.