Engine Failure (#4 Rod Bearing + Short Block)

[jdubz13frs]

Always check your oil after the dealer changes it. Last time I got it back and noticed some grease on the front bumper. I thouhgt no big deal, I'll just clean it off. Popped the hood, the grease was everywhere! I thought, "who worked on this thing? Did they do as shitty of a job with the oil change?" Checked the oil and it was at the min mark and black. They never changed it.

[Apex-Wolf]

I would call this FR-S a lemon and demand the dealership to give me a new FR-S not one that has had two major malfunctions now...

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You know what's scary?

You can have rod knock from a spun bearing, and STILL not have a check engine light.

Why would you expect to have a check engine light from a rod knock? As long as it doesn't cause a misfire, there is no failure the ECM can detect. I've been working on cars professionally for 12 years and I've never seen a check engine light set due to a "bottom end" engine failure unless the car was overrevved or overheated.

And if you read the owners manual, you should be checking the oil level every time you fill up with fuel. Takes 30 seconds. I have an STi in the shop right now where the main bearings seized due to lack of oil. I'm not saying Toyota shouldn't cover this repair, but there are steps you can take as a car owner to help prevent failures like these. Even if the repair is at no cost to you, I'm sure you'd rather be driving your car right now, right?

[jhh3000]

yikes, i just read through your entire post... seems like this 1st generation car is really plagued with problems. most of them are inconsequential (e.g., windows not rolling up, crickets), but your story and this other posting about the rear wheels locking up is pretty frightening. my car is only at 10,000 miles right now, but every bump and random clunk i hear makes me worried now...

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by jhh3000

yikes, i just read through your entire post... seems like this 1st generation car is really plagued with problems. most of them are inconsequential (e.g., windows not rolling up, crickets), but your story and this other posting about the rear wheels locking up is pretty frightening. my car is only at 10,000 miles right now, but every bump and random clunk i hear makes me worried now...

That's what you have a warranty for.

Also, check your oil.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

Why would you expect to have a check engine light from a rod knock? As long as it doesn't cause a misfire, there is no failure the ECM can detect. I've been working on cars professionally for 12 years and I've never seen a check engine light set due to a "bottom end" engine failure unless the car was overrevved or overheated.

And if you read the owners manual, you should be checking the oil level every time you fill up with fuel. Takes 30 seconds. I have an STi in the shop right now where the main bearings seized due to lack of oil. I'm not saying Toyota shouldn't cover this repair, but there are steps you can take as a car owner to help prevent failures like these. Even if the repair is at no cost to you, I'm sure you'd rather be driving your car right now, right?

It *is* misfiring.

Here's a video of engine #2 we lost.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450Pov98STg"]BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube[/ame]

The knocking is so bad you can HEAR it.

[spitfire481]

did you have that crank pulley on both motors?

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It *is* misfiring.

Here's a video of engine #2 we lost.

The knocking is so bad you can HEAR it.

To be honest I can't really tell from the video if the engine is running rough or not. But when a rod bearing starts to fail, it will not necessarily cause a misfire, regardless of how loud the knocking seems to be. I've seen many rod bearing failures where the engine ran perfectly smoothly, but it's obvious from the noise that a catastrophic failure is imminent.

Without looking at the roughness monitor, it's hard to say for certain. Some "misfire" events are normal, and the severity of the misfire is what determines how long before the ECM decides to store a code.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by spitfire481

did you have that crank pulley on both motors?

I was just about to ask this.

[CSG Mike]

Motor is 100% stock, down to the intake, Axleback (resonator) was present on both.

[Porsche]

This is an interesting "Sherlock Holmes" mystery.

We're told that the engine suffered a spun bearing with subsequent catastrophic damage calling for replacement of the "core" of the engine.

The mechanic reported that the engine was approximately 4 quarts low on oil.

There had been an oil change (at this very dealership) approximately 2000 miles ago.

Toyota is readily paying for the repairs without objection, and even offering a free loaner in the interim.

Could the engine have consumed (burned) 4 quarts within 2000 miles?

It's barely possible, but is certainly a stretch. And as was noted, that would leave this car trailing a thick cloud of blue smoke. One would expect that to be noticed.

Leaking 4 quarts of oil over such a short time span is possible, but wouldn't the owner notice the large puddle of oil in his parking spot, garage, or driveway? That's a serious enough leak to leave ample evidence, I'd think.


The low oil, the most likely cause of the damaged bearing, could have been the result of a combination of both leaking and burning.


The mechanic working on the car did not note evidence of such a major leak.


The idea that the "tech," who performed the recent oil change, may have failed, certainly has merit. In fact, I initially found that explanation appealing. However, that explanation becomes difficult to believe when we remember that the car still had one or more quarts of oil remaining in the engine.

I can well believe that a "tech" drained the oil, and then forgot to refill the oil. But, my thought is that he either filled it or he did not. He may have over-filled it as so many do, but to fill it only a little? Just one or two quarts? It's possible, but improbable.

As an aside, a friend of ours took his brand new 1961 Porsche 356 into the Porsche dealer (in Germany) for its first oil change post break-in. They sent him on his way without any oil or even his drainplug. What? (Many Germans disliked us Americans; we were still occupation forces in the country following World War II.) Was it incompetence? Malice? Who knows. But, it happens.

How is it the mechanic on Erik's car found a quart or more of oil remaining in the pan? That's really odd, and raises doubts in my mind about the oil-change tech being the culprit.

I did not comment on it earlier, but I do not know of any way that a spun bearing could cause a massive loss of oil, short of the obvious: a con rod breaks and punches a hole in the side of the engine. Yet, we're to understand that the engine was buttoned up tight with no visible leaks following this major malfunction.

Hmm…

Anyone seen Dr. Watson around?

[Porsche]

Just a note to the young folks out there, perhaps driving their first new car:

I check the oil of every new car I buy before I drive it off the lot at the dealership. (Along with other basic checks, including setting my tire pressures.)

EVERY DAY for the next month, I check the oil, whether I drive the car or not. Every day. I also check the pavement beneath the car where it's parked.

It's new, and just because it hasn't leaked yet at any of the many seals, doesn't mean it won't start leaking today. So, I check. It takes me less than two minutes.

After a month, I feel confident the seals are all good, and the tires are holding their pressure and I don't need to check them (and other things) daily.

I recommend these precautions to all new car owners.

After that, I'll check things weekly for as long as I own the car.

It's like life insurance; one does not buy insurance expecting a catastrophe, one buys it because of the catastrophic consequences in the unlikely event of death (or major oil loss).

[eric6]

Rod knock has never, to my knowledge, ever caused a CEL to kick on. The system has no way to detect the rod knock, unless it somehow triggers actual engine knock. The 4 quarts low seems to be the cause of this engine's demise the first time.

This is an interesting case, please keep us informed. Glad Toyota is taking care of it.

[eriktherod]

Just thought I'd give you guys an update on the situation (even if it isn't much yet).

I called the dealership this afternoon to get a status report on the car. Toyota is apparently very interested in this issue and told them to only do basic diagnostics until their technicians arrive. I was able to get them to confirm that it was indeed an engine issue but not what specifically.

The only pain is that while I can get a loaner (again), it may come out of my pocket if Toyota balks. Once Toyota claims it was warranty work, the loaner costs will be absorbed by them. I personally don't see why they would not cover it, there's nothing to suggest I caused this.

Fortunately my brother works third shift so I am able to use his car until I find out something.

As for oil burning/leaking, I never noticed any white smoke or oil puddles to suggest a problem. Granted I did not check the dipstick often but I never had a reason to I suppose (aside the previous failure). Lesson learned there.

I have been calm because Toyota has been pretty good about this in the past. I'm familiar with the risks of early adopters, and I sort of expected something (though not this magnitude). The other side is that I do enjoy the car, and there aren't many other cars I would consider instead of this one.

I've already figured that if I do get rid of it, it'll have to be replaced with an S2000 or STi.

Either way, I'll keep you guys posted once I find out more.